Basilio Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Hi to all Look at this: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=130176314863 eagle and wreath looks alike one's on anninskoe mint// THis fake is an obvious but that is a bad time for a newbie's in Russian coins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Hi to all Look at this: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=130176314863 eagle and wreath looks alike one's on anninskoe mint// THis fake is an obvious but that is a bad time for a newbie's in Russian coins... I informed the seller that he is offering an obvious fake and that he risks losing his good reputation. Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I informed the seller that he is offering an obvious fake and that he risks losing his good reputation. Sigi And he has done the right thing and ended the auction ("Das Angebot ist beendet"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 The real 1795 MM 5 Kopek is an overdate, 1795/88 and is overstruck on a 1762 10 Kopek. There is a very nice illustration in Brekke. Anybody have one to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Here is one: P.S. Second one in the past 6 months (I missed both :-( ) Interesting development, given the fact that it is regarded to be extremely rare... The image of the first coin I misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Yes, they're rare alright. This one showed up in Gorny 27 (Jan84), though I have multiple doubts about its authenticity. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilio Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Yes, they're rare alright. This one showed up in Gorny 27 (Jan84), though I have multiple doubts about its authenticity. Steve Yup ! You re right - this one have an eagle and a Empress monogramm of 1765 MM pyatak.. and IMHO is an obvious fake. 1795 MM from Finland I"ve got, but on pretty good 1976 overstrike - i was outbid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Quite interesting to see that all denominations of 1795 of Moscow Mint is pretty scarce - they must have been quite unprepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The real 1795 MM 5 Kopek is an overdate, 1795/88 and is overstruck on a 1762 10 Kopek. Forgive what may seem a stupid question (from someone who is not a copper specialist), but why was the Moscow mint overstriking Peter III 10 kopeks coins in 1795 (33 years after they were issued)? I thought that the overstriking of those coins had more or less finished many years earlier than that. Given that the Imperial government was likely already considering an upward revaluation of the copper coinage (the cipher series overstrikes are dated 1796), then why would Moscow suddenly feel the need to overstrike coins already struck to the standard that the next year would see adopted? This makes little sense to me and hopefully someone here has the answer. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Grivna, most of the 1795 MM kopeks are VERY interesting as it took coinages from the Moldvian coinages and overstruck them to 2 kopeks and 1 kopek. Perhaps this is an underrated series. I am still hoping to find one in my lifetime (still wished my 1795/88 MM 1 kopek that I have was overstruck on a Moldvian coinage due to it's bizarre appearance) From what I see, MM was just setup as a temporary mint and they were perhaps ordered to remove any of the unuseable coinage to useable coinage. What is more puzzling is why the Moldvian coinages were only overstruck in Moscow Mint - was it due to the logistics and Moscow Mint happened to be the nearest? I think the overstriking event in 1796 was actually unexpected. I'm sure Steve has plenty of stories to tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Grivna, most of the 1795 MM kopeks are VERY interesting as it took coinages from the Moldvian coinages and overstruck them to 2 kopeks and 1 kopek. Perhaps this is an underrated series. I am still hoping to find one in my lifetime (still wished my 1795/88 MM 1 kopek that I have was overstruck on a Moldvian coinage due to it's bizarre appearance) From what I see, MM was just setup as a temporary mint and they were perhaps ordered to remove any of the unuseable coinage to useable coinage. What is more puzzling is why the Moldvian coinages were only overstruck in Moscow Mint - was it due to the logistics and Moscow Mint happened to be the nearest? I think the overstriking event in 1796 was actually unexpected. Thank you for your reply, gx. Your point about Moscow overstriking the odd stuff into regular coinage is an interesting one. Presumably there weren't a lot of Peter III 10 kopeks copper coins still around and if Moscow was simply overstriking odds and ends as you suggest, rather than making new coins, then the Peter III coin would seem to be the only logical candidate for conversion to a regular piatak (and explain why the 1795-MM piatak is considered rare). I'm sure Steve has plenty of stories to tell I look forward to hearing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Thank you for your reply, gx. Your point about Moscow overstriking the odd stuff into regular coinage is an interesting one. Presumably there weren't a lot of Peter III 10 kopeks copper coins still around and if Moscow was simply overstriking odds and ends as you suggest, rather than making new coins, then the Peter III coin would seem to be the only logical candidate for conversion to a regular piatak (and explain why the 1795-MM piatak is considered rare). I look forward to hearing them. Actually you guys have already told the main story very well Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 1795 MM from Finland I"ve got, but on pretty good 1976 overstrike - i was outbid... Congratulations on that coin! I lacked your fantasy to bid as much. I guess this is where the prices are nowdays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Congratulations on that coin! I lacked your fantasy to bid as much. I guess this is where the prices are nowdays... I missed this auction. What did the coin sell for? Is it the same coin you showed here, BKB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I missed this auction. What did the coin sell for? Is it the same coin you showed here, BKB? As to the last part of the question -- probably yes. The coin I showed sold in Finland a week ago. I think the rest of the question should properly be addressed to Basilio -- I do not remember what the selling price was. I can only tell you that I bid 7,500 euro for it and did not get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 As to the last part of the question -- probably yes. The coin I showed sold in Finland a week ago. I think the rest of the question should properly be addressed to Basilio -- I do not remember what the selling price was. I can only tell you that I bid 7,500 euro for it and did not get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Exactly. The one offered this summer was sold for under $6000. I was at a disadvantage there given the fact that the coin was in Russia, and there was a private "auction" I did not want to "bid" a lot right away. The auction was supposed to "close" on Sunday. I was the highest bidder. However, it was continued for a week for a reason that some people at the coin club wanted to see it in person. The next Sunday I was not near the PC. SO, it sold for the nex bid increment. I am not sure whether the price was $5600 o a bit higher. Or, at least that what I was told. Had I been given a chance, I would bid higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilio Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Exactly. The one offered this summer was sold for under $6000. Yup! I"ve seen that one in my hands - all field"s has a corrosion - and i didn't make an offer on that forum namely bacause of that corrosion spots.. as result - sold for 5500 USD I was at a disadvantage there given the fact that the coin was in Russia, and there was a private "auction" I did not want to "bid" a lot right away. The auction was supposed to "close" on Sunday. I was the highest bidder. However, it was continued for a week for a reason that some people at the coin club wanted to see it in person. The next Sunday I was not near the PC. SO, it sold for the nex bid increment. I am not sure whether the price was $5600 o a bit higher. Or, at least that what I was told. Had I been given a chance, I would bid higher. Ohh come on - that coin is not so good as it looks alike.. Do You biding for 1796-EM overstrike in Finland? My bid at 4500 was unsufficient. May be You take em ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Yup!I"ve seen that one in my hands - all field"s has a corrosion - and i didn't make an offer on that forum namely bacause of that corrosion spots.. as result - sold for 5500 USD Ohh come on - that coin is not so good as it looks alike.. Do You biding for 1796-EM overstrike in Finland? My bid at 4500 was unsufficient. May be You take em ? Nope. The only bid that I could win was for 1799 1/4 ruble. At least it sold for 2000, which was my max bid. I do not know yet if I got it or not. I did not bid on 1796. I already have a 1796 overstrike on 10 kop 1796 E.M. Albeit, this one looks much better, and the EM is way more clear than on my coin. However, I am not so much into condition these days -- too expensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Good grief - I think I will continue my search in corroded coin lots. That was how I ended up finding the 1795/88 MM 1 kopek though - must say that I am very lucky on that one. Just another point of how unprepared Moscow Mint was - they reengraved the dies of 1788 and therefore the font of "95" looks "ugly". It just makes me wonder how scarce these coins are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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