squirrel Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 http://cgi.ebay.de/1720-Rubel-OK-Silber_W0...1QQcmdZViewItem Interesting overstruck Peter Ruble. Not sure whats under there. or if it was double struck. Anybody see any clues here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 http://cgi.ebay.de/1720-Rubel-OK-Silber_W0...1QQcmdZViewItem Interesting overstruck Peter Ruble. Not sure whats under there. or if it was double struck. Anybody see any clues here? Can't tell for sure, but it looks more like double struck than overstruck to me. I am judging mostly by the lettering -- looks like it was weakly struck at first (a loose die?), then rotated approx. 60-90 degrees and struck again. Strange that anyone would start the auction so low for a coin like this if it is genuine, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Looks awfully similar to my Anna ruble that I have. I am not too sure how many double struck rubles there are but I know it's not too common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 maybe a little more polishing up will reveal more detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Guys! also wanted to ask about overdates on Russian roubles of Peter I - Anna. Has anyone come across those lately? I have one in my collection 1732/1, but I guess this is a common one. Any thoughts ? Thank you in advance , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Can't tell for sure, but it looks more like double struck than overstruck to me. I am judging mostly by the lettering -- looks like it was weakly struck at first (a loose die?), then rotated approx. 60-90 degrees and struck again. Agreed, except that I would add that it appears that the obverse die was not aligned correclty with the reverse. The reverse double lettering is more or less in line with the second strike whereas on the obverse it is not. All in all, an interesting piece. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 "looks like it was weakly struck at first (a loose die?)" Be careful with unwarranted speculation. Since the second strike "smashes" the first strike any conjecture as to the strength of the first strike or loose dies is just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 "looks like it was weakly struck at first (a loose die?)" Be careful with unwarranted speculation. Since the second strike "smashes" the first strike any conjecture as to the strength of the first strike or loose dies is just that. Now that I took a second look, I think I see what you mean. This is merely an illusion, and both strikes could have been equally strong. I have this 5 kopeek 1793/2-AM which has shadows of the crown and wreath -- what do you make of it? 5k, Ekaterina II -- 1793/2-AM (looks like a double strike) I have wondered for a long time what might have caused this. Thanks for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 I can see the similarity with the 1720 ruble. Both coins have the rare THREE HEADED EAGLE, but your 5 kopeck seems to have no rotation, but rather shifted over a tiny bid between strikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Now that I took a second look, I think I see what you mean. This is merely an illusion, and both strikes could have been equally strong. I have this 5 kopeek 1793/2-AM which has shadows of the crown and wreath -- what do you make of it? 5k, Ekaterina II -- 1793/2-AM (looks like a double strike) I have wondered for a long time what might have caused this. Thanks for looking! VERY HEAVY strike-doubling. All devices are in normal postion with strike doubling damage at the periphery of the elements. Cause? Speculative. Could be loose dies or die holders w/ a slight planchet shift. Could be operator error allowing swing-arm to "bounce" during strike and coin got a second light hit --- this is technically a double-strike but good luck in convincing collectors that this is the cause and getting them to buy it as such. Nonetheless a very cool coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Is this an example of strong doubling too? Mine isn't too off collar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Is this an example of strong doubling too? Mine isn't too off collar though. Not sure what you're asking & don't know what you mean by "off collar". A link to a large photo would be nice if you really want a serious look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Hopefully this is big enough or I will have to search through my pile of cds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Hopefully this is big enough or I will have to search through my pile of cds Nice double strike. The obverse got seriously work-hardened - notice the laminations top left & right of the portrait. What did you mean by "off collar"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 By off collar, I was thinking there is a ring that keeps the coin in shape. This coin is unsually HUGE as a result from the double strike. If I remember right, this coin refused to be in a 2x2" flip whereas my other 1736 Anna ruble comfortably fitted in, just because it was too huge. In fact, I believe the diameter exceeded the 1.5ruble=10zlots when I compared it side by side a long time ago. But nevermind, I forgot that the technology at that time was very different to present days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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