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37-1/2 roubles 1902 ?????

The seller practically admits that it is fake; the weight given is about 3 grams too much; and still it is being bid up to $500; whereas if it were original, it would be worth about $30,000! :lol:

 

Private auction, also. When will people learn??? :ninja:

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the weight given is about 3 grams too much

Actually, the weight given by the seller, 32.2 g, is correct. My catalog (Kazakov) seems to have an error here. :ninja:

 

Still, I wouldn't bet my money that this coin is genuine.

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Still, I wouldn't bet my money that this coin is genuine.

 

Does this mean you don't believe that owners of extreme rarities routinely flock to ebay to sell their coins for about 5% or less of what they would bring in a real auction?

 

You probably don't believe in the Easter Bunny either! :ninja:

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Does this mean you don't believe that owners of extreme rarities routinely flock to ebay to sell their coins for about 5% or less of what they would bring in a real auction?

 

You probably don't believe in the Easter Bunny either! ;)

But of course I believe in the Easter bunny ... how can you not believe in that???

:ninja:;):cry:;):lol:

The coin has to be a fake. As I see it, there are two possibilities:

[a] the coin is genuine, but the seller doesn't have a clue;

the coin is fake.

 

Let's assume that [a] were the case. So why does he post pictures of the edge (obviously taken in a different setting than the obverse and reverse images) showing important details such as the star -- he must know that the star, indicating Paris mint, was used although the coin was actually minted in St. Petersburg. So he has more than a passing acquaintance with this coin type, which would mean he should be well aware what it is worth. Therefore, no seller in his right mind knowing these details would auction it on eBay.

 

Besides, this seller has never sold anything before -- all his feedback is for purchases. And perhaps he never actually weighed the coin, perhaps the pictures of the edge are not of the same coin. The whole thing really stinks! ;) But at least I discovered an error in my catalog -- I suppose I have to thank him for that.

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But of course I believe in the Easter bunny ... how can you not believe in that???

:ninja:  ;)  :cry:;):lol:

The coin has to be a fake. As I see it, there are two possibilities:

[a] the coin is genuine, but the seller doesn't have a clue;

the coin is fake.

 

A third possibility occurs to me....

 

[c] the coin is real but the seller does not own it.

 

Could the pictures have been taken from images of a genuine coin found elsewhere on the net? If so, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that such a scam has happened on ebay.

 

 

Let's assume that [a] were the case. So why does he post pictures of the edge (obviously taken in a different setting than the obverse and reverse images) showing important details such as the star -- he must know that the star, indicating Paris mint, was used although the coin was actually minted in St. Petersburg. So he has more than a passing acquaintance with this coin type, which would mean he should be well aware what it is worth. Therefore, no seller in his right mind knowing these details would auction it on eBay.

 

Besides, this seller has never sold anything before -- all his feedback is for purchases. And perhaps he never actually weighed the coin, perhaps the pictures of the edge are not of the same coin. The whole thing really stinks!  ;) But at least I discovered an error in my catalog -- I suppose I have to thank him for that.

 

My money says the "lucky" winner is going be very unhappy if he/she tries to resell this coin to a reputable dealer (assuming the buyer actually receives anything for his/her money).

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37-1/2 roubles 1902 ?????

The seller practically admits that it is fake... Private auction, also. When will people learn???  :ninja:

 

The seller says

 

"Da ich kein Expert für russische Münzen bin, gibt's keine Echtheitsgarantie"

 

which loosely translates as

 

"Because I'm not an expert in Russian coins, there's no guarantee that the coin is genuine".

 

I interpret that as meaning that the coin is almost certainly a counterfeit and the seller either knows or strongly suspects it.

 

You're right. This auction doesn't pass the smell test. :lol:

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Actually I'm not too sure. :ninja:

 

IF you just gave me the images, I would have questioned the authencity, but so far on most restruck coins that I have seen are not anywhere close to the color of real gold, unless it has been replated again with almost pure gold.

 

I am really ASSUMING that he got the weight out from a catalogue book or googled it up. If that is the coin that he did weigh, as well as him owning him, I'm not too sure what to say.

 

But saying that, fixing mass and engraving high quality details appearently isn't too difficult. A copy of my Gangut ruble that I have passed the mass, dimension, partly passing the edging test but failed on color test. Extremely scary when such copy coin passed so many basic tests :lol:

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The seller says

 

"Da ich kein Expert für russische Münzen bin, gibt's keine Echtheitsgarantie"

 

which loosely translates as

 

"Because I'm not an expert in Russian coins, there's no guarantee that the coin is genuine".

 

I interpret that as meaning that the coin is almost certainly a counterfeit and the seller either knows or strongly suspects it.

 

You're right.  This auction doesn't pass the smell test.  :ninja:

Let's play this out ab adsurdum:

 

I think we can rule out the possibility that the seller acquired this coin legitimately at auction or by having it in his family. There is also the not-too-remote possibility that the coin has been passed around some shady characters after having been stolen, and finally someone who paid a few hundred Euros for it wants to realize a profit. But this scenario would also fall under the caveats expressed below.

 

If it were an heirloom, then certainly the seller would be able to consult with banks or other experts ... after all, you'd pretty well have to have blue blood in your veins if this were an heirloom.

 

If the seller acquired it at auction, no way it would be sold off on eBay, period ... especially with a low opening bid. We know what the seller would have had to pay at auction to win this coin.

 

Let's therefore assume that he stole it or found this gold coin somewhere (the seller seems to know about coins, as he states that it has been mounted in the past, but never mind) ... He thinks it is possibly genuine, but is too lazy to look it up in a catalog. Since he paid nothing for it, he takes pictures of the obverse and possibly the reverse and puts them on eBay (remember, extra pictures cost money to post on eBay). The fact that we have edge pictures at all, much less pictures containing salient details of the edge, would strongly contradict this scenario.

 

Moral of the story: ANYTHING going for less than a good percentage (perhaps 50%) of the actual retail value on eBay is bound to be suspect!

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Most definately agree with your analysis Bobh. In this case, this coin actually sold at 10% of its realistic value, which is a total joke.

 

Who knows, if it is indeed a stolen coin, it might be a sample from the St. Petersburg museum - appearently many important art pieces were looted out by museum cureators. I wouldn't be too surprised if coins were smuggled out too :ninja:

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