Ian

Absolutely brilliant! Couldn't ask for more info as to its origins and purpose. Many thanks indeed for taking the trouble !

I'm just slightly puzzled though, as this one certainly doesn't strike me as being gilt over a base metal, but yet it does not have any hallmarking either on the edge or per the location noted in your friends comments. No doubt i'll come across a reason for that particular anomaly at some point. Probably my perceptions at fault. I'll go dig it out again and have a closer look now

cheers,

Thanks for the reference. I'm astonished to learn that it is noted as `rare'. I'd be interested to learn if your friends book has anything to add.

Ian

This medal (auspiciously dated 1830) ended up in my possession about ten years ago as part of a job lot. I always intended to find out more about it, but that intention must have dropped off the edge of a cliff somewhere. If anyone knows anything concerning it that is likely to be of interest, please chirp in.

Ian

Hi,

 

Can you tell me how to post pics right into the post rather than as a thumbnail that requires clickinh to see larger?

 

Thanks

when you want to add an image into your message just click on the box marked IMG

You are then prompted to type in the web address where the image is located, then click `ok'. The board's software does the necessary for you. It is as simple as that.

Of course, that is presuming that you have the image on a web page in the first place.

Most ISP's provide you with webspace, but there are many image hosting services you can use. Omnicoin being one of them.

Ian

there's another difference:

 

notice the "P" above the tail feathers?

 

My krause (2005) says:

 

KM# 289.1

 

1995P Proof, mintage 4,900, value $20.00

1996 mintage 300,000, value in UNC $18

The key difference is noticeable when you have the two types in hand. The mirror finish on the proof is in the fields and the devices are frosted. The `proof likes' are frosted fields but the devices have a polished look to them rather than the deep mirror effect produced with the proof strike.

Different die finishes.

I always thought mine were the Uncs.

They are probably best described as `proof like'. The frosted surfaces achieved are amazing though, and produce some amazing colourations when they tone.

Ian

I am not familiar with this series at all so I am merely hypothesizing here, but comparing the field and devices of your 1995 "Kookaburra in flight" with Tiff's 1996, I am tempted to say that yours would be the BU version and her's the proof. (Thus my reason for thinking there is a mistake in the Krause.)

 

My Krause also lists a KM#701 dollar in this series but shows no photo. I wonder if that is the coin that Tiff has??

That 1995 flying kook of mine is very definitely a proof coin. Heavily frosted devices in very deep mirror finished fields. Don't be put off by the occasional flecks. They are marks on the glass of the scanner.

Ian

I dug out my 1999 copy of KM . In it the $1 series `Australian Kookaburra' (An Aussie Kook?) starts with KM 164 in 1992, but there's also KM209 `Kookaburra Feeding Nestling' (Kooky Times?) dated 1992.

In 1993 we have THREE different designs. The same two from the previous year and a new one, 212.1 `Pair of Kookaburras' (Just a Couple of Kooks?).

In 1994 we have two designs. KM212.1 again and a new design KM260 `Kookaburra on Branch' (Kook on a Stick to Go?)

In 1995 we have two designs. KM260 again and a new design KM289.1 `Kookaburra in Flight' (as used in the aboriginal game of darts?).

In 1996 the KM289.1 design was issued again.....and there my KM's referencing ends.

Presumably there being at least two different designs each year, this trend has been maintained to present time (?). Can anyone with a more up to date KM than me confirm?

Ah well, nothing untowards with the two different types I have for 1995 then. At least, my 1995 flying Kook is noted as a `proof' with a mintage of only 4,900.

Maybe one day it'll be worth more than the $2 over the 1996 that KM notes . Then again maybe not. Maybe KM will issue a correction that the figure was really 4,900,000. Now THAT would be more in keeping with my luck of late.

Ian

Here's the two different 1995's I have, and the 1999.

I've got a few dates for these. They are really really beautiful coins.

Tiff.....I don't have an up to date KM (modern coins aren't really my thing), so I don't know what is what with these issues. However, I noticed that your coin dated 1996 is the same as one I have...excepting that my one is dated 1995 (?). I also have another for 1995 although different design. Always did mean to get to the bottom of that but never did.

Were there two different issues for 1995 ? Is there a static design for each year as well as a unique design for each year? I figured there was perhaps a bullion coin running alongside the collectors coin or something like that .

PS I also have a 1999 which you might not have. Want a scan?

Ian

Hello group,

 

I'm a new member here and am very glad to have found this forum. I have been collecting Swiss shooting medals (schützenfest medals) for 20 years and my father since 1961.

 

I am an avid collector of mainly shooting medals but also cups, watches, jetons and memorabilia. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding Schützenfest medals (if I can). I can also give you some information regarding books pertaining to Swiss shooting medals other than the one by Delbert Krause.

 

I am glad to have found a forum where Swiss medals (specifically, shooting medasl) are appreciated.

 

I look forward to talking with you all.

 

Rod

Hi Rod. Although I might not be quite as enthusiastic as you are in relation to collecting these items, I certainly have an appreciation for the quality of artistry and strike achieved. I look forward to learning more from you and seeing some more of your collection. That's a real beauty you posted!

You also mentioned my favourite collecting area...jetons Do you also collect french jetons or did you mean Swiss?

Ian

another nice medal in your growing collection.....

Ian

Now the French are going overboard in their desire to mend the fence with the USA 

 

But yes, it is an appropriate commem though.

Looks to me from the coin that Ben has told them to go fly a kite, especially with the prices they are looking to achieve from collectors.

Ian

I had a friend who possesses a copy of Marvin's book on Masonic medals to take a look at the first jeton and his partial response was:

I'm fairly certain that Louis XVI wasn't a Mason but I might be mistaken about that. His brother, the Duc d'Orleans was the Grand Master of France at the time of the Revolution.

Fascinating. The thinking in France is (I believe) that a secret society would not be as overt with their jetons, nor would a King be associated so directly as having his image on the obverse. This contradicts earlier thinking.

There is an earlier jeton same reverse but bearing the bust of Louis XV, probably circa 1740 -50. So if Marvin missed the Louis XVI one, he probably missed a couple of Louis XV too . Gadoury's 1991 catalogue lists three different busts with that same reverse under the category `Master Masons' and unfortunately `and masonic interests', giving the impression that it is connected to free masonery. I am of the view that the jeton lies more properly alongside such series as Experts des Batiments (du Roi).

I need to dig out my CGB catalogues as I recall Michel Prieur commenting along the lines that these items are not actually (free) masonic and that values of them had dropped off due to this. I haven't come across one with that reverse AND a Minerva bust. However, i've just posted a masonic piece with Minerva on it in the`Minerva' thread :-).

The French `jeton de presence' was used as a means of token payment for such things as attendance at meetings, or sitting on committees commissioned by the Government or issued as tokens of appreciation by the various offices of state including the royal households. As such the scope for these is immense. Some bodies issuing only one, others issuing a different jeton each year and over a period sometimes exceeding a century.

Although there is an ever growing band of `jeton collectors', these items are generally still mostly unheard of outside of France. I have been collecting them now for some five years or so and have been fascinated by the historical and cultural backdrop to most of these little gems. It has to be said that their individual mintages are generally numbered in the lower thousands (with some few exceptions), so none of them are exactly `common' in numismatic terms. However that does not mean that they are expensive either. Sure, many are hyper scarce and will cost a pretty penny, but there are real beauties out there that can be had for a song. I'm pretty sure that the collecting fraternity will one day waken up to this particular `sleeper' hence the reason why I grab as many as I can. :-)

Here's one that arrived with me just this morning. A jeton designed for the Guild of Master Masons by Duvivier circa 1780 and struck at La Monnaie, Paris. Note, this Guild was nothing to do with the `freemasons'. Another thing to be considered about these items is that they were produced when silver was the basis of the currency unit. Many of these `jetons' did indeed change hands in exchange for goods or services even though not exactly strictly `legal tender'.

The second one in this post is a more modern piece issued for one of the Maritime Insurance Companies. The item was, like most of this type. most probably issued to council members for attendance.

In case you are really really into these, Gietl just published a new two-volume catalog about Swiss shooting medals - Schützentalers, Schützenmedaillen, Schützenjetons, in German, 600 pages, and pretty much every described piece is depicted in color. The author is Jürg Richter. The not-so-neat part is this: €98 ...

 

Christian

Argh! For now I think i'll be sticking with Delbert R Krause's `Swiss Shooting Medals'. If I become re-addicted to these, then perhaps i'll splash out. However, there would be so much data totally lost on me due to my inability to read in German.

Ian

Last one for now, this time from Basel 1844.

Although not really a shooting medal this dates from 1804 from Zurich:

 

 

It's a protector's medal, issued to the local militia for service in defense of the country.

 

I'm not exactly sure when shooting medals started but they are one of the great temptations outside of the Napoleonic era for me. There have been hours at a Long Beach show where I just sit drooling over these things...

Pretty neat medal you have there. I wasn't aware of these.

The only reference I had for Swiss Shooting Medals was the Krause one of the same name (small green leatherette hardback). I gave my copy as a gift a while back to a friend in the US who was hooked on these babies a bit more than I was. So i'm now floundering concerning what is / was the earliest Swiss shooting medal. Although the Swiss tend to come to mind in connection with shooting medals (probably rightly so from an art perspective) there are german ones which are absolutely stunning too. Sadly I have none of my own to demonstrate what I mean, but the Goetz one in an adjacent thread certainly fit the bill in terms of general aesthetic merit (IMHO).

Ian

I don't have many more of these left to show. My interest in collecting them waned when I got hooked on jetons, but looking at them again has rekindled my own interest. Mind you, i've got a few of the more common Swiss Shooting Thalers to show after I run out of the medals

I always hear imaginary strains of the William Tell Overture when I look at this one. (excuse the poor image. I must take the time to scan it myself rather than using the original auction image).

The William Tell Overture was popularised in the US when it was chosen as the theme tune for `The Lone Ranger'. Most people in the western world (pardon the pun) know it better for the masked ranger. The medal however depicts its true origins.

Ian

Here's another Swiss shooting medal. This time Zurich 1895. I'm a sucker for these nice chunks of siller with pretty city view and countryside scenes. The semi- naked lady (obverse) really gets in the way of the view don't you think?

I have to confess that i'm not much of an admirer of Goetz's work or style, but that medal is one that i'd happily have in my collection.

Here's another one. This time Geneva, 1887. I have one in Silver and one in Bronze. They are the most 3 dimensional pieces I have ever come across. The photo does it no justice.

Ian

`Seasoned Anorak'

I was kind of hoping to entice other collectors of these pieces from out of the woodwork, but so far, i've failed :-(

Ah well, here's another one of mine. Thurgau this time.

A denier of Foulques V D'Anjou (coin circa 1109 -1129) arrived with me today. A denier of Hugues V de Bourgogne arrived yesterday. Scratch another two french historical figures from my hit list.

Swiss (and other countries) shooting medals are highly collectable. I didn't become interested in them at all until I saw this one. From the Swiss Canton of Glarus. Had to buy it. I've bought a few since, but none of them are quite so colourful.

Amazing though it may seem, the toning is indeed natural and is one of those occasions where it just seems to blend in with the coin.