schutzenfester Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Great stuff! I wasn't aware that altered coins/medals could be slabbed. Out of curiosty, what specific medals to you speak of when you say you were not aware that altered medals could be slabbed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohar Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 The medals appear to be graded fairly. As we are all keenly aware, it is difficult to see every detail in a photo especially with the lighting of some of these. As I have stated previously, grading of shooting medals by a third party is out of the norm in this collecting field or at least in Europe and at most auctions. Certainly it is not the case here or with Zohars examples. I love to look at shooting medals close up and out side of slabs but I understand why some like and at times prefer slabbing. Most of all I am very happy to see there is a growing appreciation and group of collectors since for so many years schützenfest medals were only appreciated by a few, relative to coin collecting. Rod, I agree with you regarding holding the medals in hand. My rational for slabbing is preservation. These accumulate dust and demand care which I prefer avoiding. Obviously, should these end up in someone else's hands in the future, they can break the medal free I too enjoy the interest of others in these. Be well, Zohar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Out of curiosty, what specific medals to you speak of when you say you were not aware that altered medals could be slabbed? Perhaps you are speaking of Kim's oval medal R894 from Luzern 1920. If this is the case, this medal is not altered, the pin back was how it was awarded. I forgot about the 1920 Luzern pinback when I asked the above question and I now assume that is what "altered" probably pertained to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Rod, I agree with you regarding holding the medals in hand. My rational for slabbing is preservation. These accumulate dust and demand care which I prefer avoiding. Obviously, should these end up in someone else's hands in the future, they can break the medal free I too enjoy the interest of others in these. Be well, Zohar I can't say I disagree with slabbing because I do not. I own many slabbed coins, a few medals and several modern Swiss Thalers. I agree with your rational in regards to preservation. Although I do not handle all my medals and do like viewing them close up with my eye and with a loupe. Looking through a slab piece of plastic is just not the same as I am sure you are aware. I have handled many schützenfest medals over the years, my Father even more. We have seen pristine medals and own pristine medals that have never been slabbed and still look like they did the day they were awarded. Many times preservation is in the "hands" of the one who owns the medal. With that said I doubt I would ever take a slabbed medal out of the slab just to be able to hold it. And as many, I buy the coin and/or the medal not the slab. I am a conservative grader, my father may be even more conservative and I have seen NGC and PCGS become more liberal in their grading over the years and in terms of schützenfest medals it appears the same in some instances. Plus how does PCGS and NGC grade medals? Based on what expertise? Based on numismatic criteria? I feel that shooting medals are vastly different than coins; deeper and more intricate engraving, induced patinas and so on. I am just glad that I started this lifelong journey of schützenfest collecting when I did and I have to thank my Dad for many years of teaching and the honing of my skills of collecting theses beauties as well as other schützenfest memorabilia. Just my two cents and IMHO. Another IMHO; your schützenfest medals, slabbed or not are very nice indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 The interest I have in shooting medals has emanated directly from my initial interest in and subsequent collection of Swiss shooting talers and `so called talers'. I have always had a thing for city views, scenery, and architecture and find the depth of field obtained by some of the medal strikes to be absolutely stunning. Have to confess that I find the design and strike of some shooting medals to be (cough) less than inspirational. Like any collecting field ...to each their own. While i will cherry pick and collect what draws my attention with regards to `shooters' some collectors will collect almost anything and everything in the field, and for bona fide purposes of their own. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any shooting talers posted so far. I had thought of doing so myself but presumed (perhaps erroneously) that most `world' coin collectors would have a few examples of these in their collections (?). Have to say though that while i'm not adverse to `slabbing' for preservation purposes, I find the concept of using the US MS grading `concept' to these items to be more of a joke than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 The interest I have in shooting medals has emanated directly from my initial interest in and subsequent collection of Swiss shooting talers and `so called talers'. I have always had a thing for city views, scenery, and architecture and find the depth of field obtained by some of the medal strikes to be absolutely stunning. Have to confess that I find the design and strike of some shooting medals to be (cough) less than inspirational. Like any collecting field ...to each their own. While i will cherry pick and collect what draws my attention with regards to `shooters' some collectors will collect almost anything and everything in the field, and for bona fide purposes of their own. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any shooting talers posted so far. I had thought of doing so myself but presumed (perhaps erroneously) that most `world' coin collectors would have a few examples of these in their collections (?). Have to say though that while i'm not adverse to `slabbing' for preservation purposes, I find the concept of using the US MS grading `concept' to these items to be more of a joke than anything else. Between my Dad and myself we have all the Swiss Shooting Thalers. But our interest is in the shooting medals and not as much so in the thalers. Most coin collectors pursue the thalers before the medals for the fact that the thalers are categorized as coins. I concentrate almost entirely on medals, cups, other award types, postcards/periodicals, memorabilia, and thalers for schützenfests in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Not being either Swiss or a shooting afficionado, my interest in shooting medals and talers is purely for their relative aesthetic value rather than any historical or social context. Thankfully, I do not have any compulsion to collect shooting ephemera. I've got enough of a compulsion to contend with collecting with french jetons and world coins in general as it is. Currently awaiting the arrival a further ten shooting medals purchased last month. Will only post them if there hasn't been any examples posted recently. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 I think we should have a PSSMI (Popular Swiss Shooting Medals Idol) contest similar to the PCIs that we also run. The only downside is that we'd only have 3 or 4 people entering all their beautiful medals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Perhaps you are speaking of Kim's oval medal R894 from Luzern 1920. If this is the case, this medal is not altered, the pin back was how it was awarded. I forgot about the 1920 Luzern pinback when I asked the above question and I now assume that is what "altered" probably pertained to. I think you are right Rod. People see a coin with a pinback and think "altered". Usually that is the case. The 1920 Luzern tried to free itself from the old holder as seen here... NGC put it into an edgeview holder which I really like. Here it is in it's new holder... It's currently sitting on my nightstand as I type. I studied it for about a year before I even thought about having it certified. Now that is is certified I have been thinking about the amount of time and trouble it took to produce these. An amazing Schutzenfest medal to be sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I guess I have an affinity to the clean, sharp, but floral helmet motif... That makes two of us, three if you count ScottishMoney... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 A couple of new arrivals to my collection......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Nice medals Ian! More examples of the intricate engraving/art detail. Thanks for showing them to us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Nice medals, espesh the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredkper Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 here is another one I believit is a german shooting Tahler some one said from Saxony would you happen to have any info on this one as well . Thank you all for your time and info And I would love to buy or trade for any Shooting Thalers This one is an actual prize mdal for the best shooting score. These types of medals were issued by most of the larger German States and usually went to the military shooters. Most "shooting thalers " are actually comemorative medals especially if issued after 1871. Before then there were many actual coin issues comemorating shooting events. That is just Germany. Then there are some really gorgeous medals from Austria, Italy and France besides the Swiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Very nice medals Ian, especially the 1903 Biel. One of Holy Freres most beautiful designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 My latest acquisition: Graubunder 4 Franken struck for the Federal Shooting festival at Chur in 1842. Would appreciate any info regarding the correct weight of this item so i can satisfy myself as to its bona fides. i got it rather too cheap. It ticks all the right boxes though with regards to dimension, ring, and surface texture. Edge mark - Eintracht Macht Stark followed by a *. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredkper Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 These medals are classics! Has anyone here ever run into any of the Swiss medals issued to members of the Swiss military for their service on their borders during the wars of 1870-71, 1914-18, 1939-45? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 My latest acquisition: Graubunder 4 Franken struck for the Federal Shooting festival at Chur in 1842. Would appreciate any info regarding the correct weight of this item so i can satisfy myself as to its bona fides. i got it rather too cheap. It ticks all the right boxes though with regards to dimension, ring, and surface texture. Edge mark - Eintracht Macht Stark followed by a *. Hi Ian, 28.3 grams is the weight although I have no official documentation other than personal experience. Please keep in mind that variants such as planchet and scales can make the weight different than the 28.3 grams stated. I hope this helps, Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schutzenfester Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 These medals are classics! Has anyone here ever run into any of the Swiss medals issued to members of the Swiss military for their service on their borders during the wars of 1870-71, 1914-18, 1939-45? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Hi Ian, 28.3 grams is the weight although I have no official documentation other than personal experience. Please keep in mind that variants such as planchet and scales can make the weight different than the 28.3 grams stated. I hope this helps, Rod Many thanks for the data Rod. My one is bang on 28.3 grams, so I guess I can put my thoughts of it potential being a forgery to rest, and revel in my bargain buy. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredkper Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Thanks Rod, nice contribution medals (1 + 3) not sure what the middle medal is for, but I was thinking more of medals issued to the military units for time served protecting the borders like these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 Latest additions: The first was issued for Chur (1949). The second is really tiny for a shooting medal (23mm) and was issued for the fest at Solothurn in 1840. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 1949? Wow. I don't think I've seen a date that late in this thread. What are the earliest and latest years of the stereotypical Swiss shooting medal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 Actually Swiss shooting medals are still being made, but IMHO they are not as nice as those from the classical era like those Holy Freres pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 .....NOT a Swiss shooting medal, but a French one dated 1913. Nice, quite 3 dimensional, silver plated over bronze but it doesn't have that certain `je ne sais quoi', that the Swiss medals have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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