oregoncoin Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I was looking at the Coins and Medals auction and the 15k 1764 Siberia novodel looked similar to my 1764 novodel denga I have, and I had an epiphany... I'm sure y'all were aware of this long ago, but I can't recall ever reading that the cipher-side (the reverses?) of 1764 Siberia copper polushka, denga and kopek novodels were also used in the grivna, 15 kopek, and 20 kopek silver novodels, respectively. I haven't spent much time on it, but for the kopek anyway, it appears that the die was used first for the copper, then the silver, since at least one silver 20k novodel features a die that's progressively more worn than one of the kopek novodels. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Amazingly enough, no one commented... My hat is off to you sir -- an amazing observation!!! I do not think I have ever seen it mentioned in literature (but, Siberia is not my forte). Looks like you are absolutely right on the die use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Very interesting, and very likely from what I understand about Novodels! It would be great to compile an online database of images of Russian Novodels. Any ideas on how and where to start this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I have much more general question regarding Novodels.. Apart from the fact that I ..let's say .. don't like them and the whole idea for me is cheating can someone explain me: 1. when we talk about Novodel and not about simple fake, copy or fantasy coin. - from which point we treat this seriously ? 2. when and where the Novodels were produced ? I've heard only about one moment in the history - middle of XIX century.. 3. Are there any records of such activity? 4. I understand the idea in terms of real coins .. trials ..but rest? What about totaly new/different dies ? Someone made dies, produced coins that looks like the other from the period and than we treat this like a special event??? Why? In this case my "production" from the present time will be treated like a novodel in the next 100 years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I have much more general question regarding Novodels.. Apart from the fact that I ..let's say .. don't like them and the whole idea for me is cheating can someone explain me: 1. when we talk about Novodel and not about simple fake, copy or fantasy coin. - from which point we treat this seriously ? 2. when and where the Novodels were produced ? I've heard only about one moment in the history - middle of XIX century.. 3. Are there any records of such activity? 4. I understand the idea in terms of real coins .. trials ..but rest? What about totaly new/different dies ? Someone made dies, produced coins that looks like the other from the period and than we treat this like a special event??? Why? In this case my "production" from the present time will be treated like a novodel in the next 100 years ? Hi Peter, The best definition of Novodels is given by Uzdenikov. I don't recall it by heart but it goes something like this: A Novodel is a coin replica struck officially at the mint using original or new dies, or struck officially elsewhere but using original dies. Novodels were produced from the end of 18th century to almost the end of 19th, and then again were produced in the 1920's by the soviet government. All Novodels were ordered and processed through official channels, and generated some degree of paperwork, which may or may not exist today. Almost all Novodels were produced for collectors, who back then just as today, prefer to see pretty and shiny objects in their collections, and I don't blame them! Many or most of Gangut and 1915 roubles available today are Novodels struck with original dies by the Soviet government. I think many of the particularly shiny and well struck mid 19th century copper is also Novodels, but rarely sold as such. At any rate like them or hate them, it would be great to document them. Even if your goal is to avoid buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Thx Alex... Somehow I feel comfortable with the idea of original dies.. but then new dies concept is not for me. Apart from the fact that prices for this stuf are crazy and of course I wont blame anyone for deep need to have something "shiny" I still feel gap between original coin and this "product"... and as you said there is no good records for this procedure. It remains me that during the "communist time" we had something which was called "semi like chocolate"...It looked like a chocolate..tasted like a sweet plastic and it was suppose to be original... bleeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 There are whole bunch of people that collect all kinds of different sh*t... Why not Novodels? By the way, some novodel medals of Peter I were produced in the 18th century I believe. If you derive no joy from looking for and finding a rare original. All you need is a plugged hole. Many reasons for ordering a novodel. They were also produced for Industrial fair as a display of Russian technological achievement (thus were not produced for numismatists that one time) My position -- live and let live... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 during the "communist time" we had something which was called "semi like chocolate"...It looked like a chocolate..tasted like a sweet plastic and it was suppose to be original... bleeee That was soya sweets, called "soya chockolate". I guess Mars, Cadburry etc stole that magical recipee, and doing that now worldwide with some modification )) Though generally many collectors do not 'like' novodels, still many of these type of coins get very high prices and are sought after: Peter III cypher rouble, Peter I 2 roubles, Popoltina 1726, Menshikov grivna. There is no way to find or afford the originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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