kopeikin Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Excuse me but does this artifact look original to you? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...E:B:WNA:CA:1123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted June 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I understand of course that these days it is close to impossible to determine authenticity by just looking at the pictures. This rouble however is supposed to be extremely rare. Imagine there we just 2500 pieces made! For last few months there were about 3 of these sold on eBay. It looks like some scam is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted June 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 All these roubles look same to me. Look at another new listing: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 sold 4 $2372.89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 dinaburg's one is different from chinese pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted June 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 dinaburg's one is different from chinese pieces dinaburg.da-pils rouble looks like being whizzed and polished with cloth till shines. They do it with all of their coins probably for better sales. I am not an expert to determine how both dinaburg.da-pils and China one are close to original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Somebody is not going to be happy when they find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Do not see anything wrong from these photos (listing 1). On the other hand, the photos are not too good... Cannot say the same about the second listing. This ruble is not rare by any means. I had 3 at one time. A friend has 7, one of which is graded Proof. The proof ones are very rare. The MS are very easy to find. The 1st coin does not look cleaned. For some reason some of these are original frosted milky white and still grade very high, maybe had to do with the die surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 i was wondering if dinaburg's one is really from kunker auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Who is "ST. NICHOLAS II"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted June 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Do not see anything wrong from these photos (listing 1). On the other hand, the photos are not too good... Cannot say the same about the second listing.This ruble is not rare by any means. I had 3 at one time. A friend has 7, one of which is graded Proof. The proof ones are very rare. The MS are very easy to find. The 1st coin does not look cleaned. For some reason some of these are original frosted milky white and still grade very high, maybe had to do with the die surface. may be this rouble is the case when the counterfeits are too good? There were just 2500 pcs made for the whole world. It is hard to believe so many people decided to part with this rarity at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I agre that this ruble not rare at all but in proof yes; If I need to buy this ruble, I would choose an auction or coin show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 may be this rouble is the case when the counterfeits are too good? There were just 2500 pcs made for the whole world. It is hard to believe so many people decided to part with this rarity at the same time. Who told you about 2500 pcs!? That is a bunch of bat guano. It is a 26000 pcs. mintage. Moreover, we do not know whether the Soviets increased it a bit like they did with Gangut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Excuse me but does this artifact look original to you? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...E:B:WNA:CA:1123 I personally do not like the edge lettering here. I may be wrong from the "distance" but it does not look authentic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Who is "ST. NICHOLAS II"? Perhaps it refers to the fact that Nicholas II and, I believe, the whole royal family were recently canonized by the Orthodox church in Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Would be intesting to know if dinaburg is russian-speaking or american dealer, sometimes his/her description breaks any logics P.S. fresh sample with Saint Nicholas II (Alexandrovich Romanov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Would be intesting to know if dinaburg is russian-speaking or american dealer,sometimes his/her description breaks any logics P.S. fresh sample with Saint Nicholas II (Alexandrovich Romanov) He speaks perfect Russian. Btw, "Dinaburg" is the old name of the city of Daugavpils (Dvinsk). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Perhaps it refers to the fact that Nicholas II and, I believe, the whole royal family were recently canonized by the Orthodox church in Russia? Thank you, Maya. I was unaware that had occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 I believe, the whole royal family were recently canonized by the Orthodox church in Russia? is this a question or a statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted June 30, 2010 Report Share Posted June 30, 2010 Thank you, Maya. I was unaware that had occurred. There was a lot of controversy concerning the canonization of the Tsar and his family. It was initiated by the Russian Orthodox church outside Russia, and I am not sure that church had the necessary authority to complete the process. When in the early 2000's the Orthodox church in Russia agreed to the canonization it became more widely accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 His Imperial Highness The Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovich Romanov is among them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 Dindling thing is 100% fake. Same old, same old. Look at the letters. E-l-i-k-u-m ( Эликум) was master's name. Not something starting with Z. (Э.Б), NOT (З.Б) Rare? Personally, I think 25000 is an error... May be 125 000 were struck in reality, or more... Unless all 25000 are abroad and in a possession of the collectors. Almost every dealer had them in our city a few years ago... I can say same thing BKB said about friends. Randomly visited stores in Europe had them than... Just like 1915 rouble. 500 pcs? May be 500 000 in reality? What puzzles me that Kazakov, Bitkin and others had access to hundreds of auction catalogs were they can see clearly way more than 500 pcs of 1915 roubles were listed over the last 20 years. Nevertheless - 500 pcs. Period. Despite the facts. Same with "Dvorik". They forgot the "0" in mintage as well. (In my opinion of course...) Please excuse me from going off topic a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 What pazzles me that Kazakov, Bitkin and others had access to hundreds of auction catalogs. Please exuse me from going off topic a bit... in all respect to catalogers: I would note that above catalogers had access to not so many catalogs as you think, even those two-three hundred they had, did not reflect the real mintage quantity of a ruble discussed in this topic; to observe more quatities of catalogs would require significally more time (or years), which both could not go through by many reasons, and, as a result - we all enjoy the copies (books) being issued so far. I appreciate your excuse being a little off topic, why - because million times I observe the others tell tales too far from a topic and never excused, moreover, buging the subject with foreign unrelated samples. Thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 Dindling thing is 100% fake. Same old, same old. Look at the letters. E-l-i-k-u-m ( Эликум) was master's name. Not something starting with Z. (Э.Б), NOT (З.Б) Absolutely! Just like 1915 rouble. 500 pcs? May be 500 000 in reality?What puzzles me that Kazakov, Bitkin and others had access to hundreds of auction catalogs were they can see clearly way more than 500 pcs of 1915 roubles were listed over the last 20 years. Nevertheless - 500 pcs. Period. Despite the facts. Even H.M. Severin back in the 1960's questions this low number: "...This figure unacceptable as author has handled and seen many specimens; 7 reposing on a tray in one instance." In R.W. Julian's reference Russian Silver Coinage (1796-1917) he remarks in a footnote on the Nicholas II roubles (p. 101): "About 5,000 roubles of 1915 were struck at Petrograd in 1921 for the Far Eastern Republic." But even 5,000 seems like it is much too low considering that you can find one almost every week on eBay; and seemingly every major auction has one listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 In R.W. Julian's reference Russian Silver Coinage (1796-1917) he remarks in a footnote on the Nicholas II roubles (p. 101):"About 5,000 roubles of 1915 were struck at Petrograd in 1921 for the Far Eastern Republic." But even 5,000 seems like it is much too low considering that you can find one almost every week on eBay; and seemingly every major auction has one listed. a footnote was first time mentioned in russian language by Spasskii, it should been addressed to him at the time he was alife, where he got these info and if there was more data, but he did not share it with ohters through his article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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