question about cartwheel

[luke_idk]

It could sound a silly question, but I'm not so expert, about the matter.

When and where was the nickname born? I heard different ideas about that. Someone statues that British 1 and 2 pennies of 1797 were so called, because of their dimensions and rims shape and the nickname was then used for Morgan dollars, after a century. Some others, that the dollars themselves were called this way and that the nickname crossed the Atlantic Ocean referred to old British pennies. I also heard about a kind of light of silver dollars rim's movement.

 

Thanks, in advance, to anyone that could give me some answers.

[thedeadpoint]

Great question! Can't wait to hear an answer!

[constanius]

British 1 and 2 pennies of 1797 were so called, because of their dimensions and rims shapes

 

I believe that is the correct explanation and I also think they were nicknamed as such pretty close to their date of manufacture (the Brits love nicknames).

 

From The London Mint:

18th Century Cartwheel Penny, 1797

 

The ‘Cartwheel Penny’ is an important coin because it was the first copper penny issued, and it featured Britannia for the first time on a British coin. It was also struck using coin presses powered by steam - yet another first.

 

The first copper coins that Boulton minted for the British Government are know as 'cartwheels', because of their large size and raised rims.

 

In 1773, Boulton went into partnership with the inventor, James Watt. After the death of his father, Boulton purchased a piece of barren heath at nearby Soho, and opened a much larger coin-making works.

 

For the next eleven years Boulton's factory producing and selling Watt's steam-engines. These machines were mainly sold to colliery owners who used them to pump water from their mines. Boulton & Watt's machine was very popular because it was four times more powerful than those that had been based on the Thomas Newcomen design.

 

The Soho Mint struck 500 tons of these penny and twopenny pieces in 1797.

[constanius]

This Quote seems to sum it up

 

"The coins turned out to be extremely unpopular with the general populace because of its monstrous weight and size. (The other reason this coin suffered considerable damage - it's size) It was too cumbersome to carry around a lot of large and heavy loose change in the purse or pouch for average everyday purchases. So the term “Cartwheel” was given to these coins because people complained they were as big as cartwheels"

[luke_idk]

Thank you Constanius, that's my idea, too, as I read what was written on British sites.

 

I add, this interesting link, about Mr. Boulton

 

http://www.matthewboulton2009.org/index.php/home

[numismatic nut]

From my understanding it had to do with the way light produces luster on UNC coins.

[luke_idk]

From my understanding it had to do with the way light produces luster on UNC coins.

 

I heard it, as well, but British pennies don't produce that kind of light...

[YeOldeCollector]

I believe it is due to the sheer size of them and the way it has a thick rim, as if a cartwheel.

 

 

 

From my understanding it had to do with the way light produces luster on UNC coins.

 

Not sure why the lustre would mean the name 'cartwheel'...

[constanius]

I believe it is due to the sheer size of them and the way it has a thick rim, as if a cartwheel.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why the lustre would mean the name 'cartwheel'...

This is the explanation for that use;

 

Definitions

[1] Cartwheel is a slang term for a large American silver dollar coin, usually a Morgan Dollar.

 

[2] The cartwheel effect is a term that describes the rotating, windmill like effect of light that mint state coins exhibit. The cartwheel effect is best known for appearing on Morgan Dollars, due to a fortuitous confluence of coin design, planchet size, and die preparation methods, although the effect can be seen on nearly any mint state coin. The cartwheel effect is caused by flow lines that occur during the coin striking process, and the effect is somewhat fragile, disappearing as a result of circulation or the coin being cleaned.

 

To most easily observe the cartwheel effect, hold a newly minted coin with the obverse side up, and tilt the coin at various angles to the light. You should see a pattern of rotating lighter versus darker reflection of the light against the coin's surface as you tilt the coin. The cartwheel effect is best seen on larger coins, and doesn't necessarily appear on all mint state coins, since the effect is dependent on various factors that come together during striking.

 

Morgan Dollars are nicknamed cartwheels due to the strong tendency of mint state specimens to exhibit this beautiful windmill-like effect.

 

But this happened long after the English 'cartwheel pennies' were so called.

[YeOldeCollector]

But this happened long after the English 'cartwheel pennies' were so called.

 

Many thanks Constanius, so yes, this cannot be the reason for the original naming of the British coins.

[luke_idk]

But this happened long after the English 'cartwheel pennies' were so called.

 

That's what I think, as well. Anyway I did not find anything that could surely statue that 'cartwheel' nickname was born, in England, at the end of 18th century, even if I think so.