gxseries Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 From the link: Overstriked coins Such coins are quite interesting as it may still have some underlying image preserved, but most certainly not too nice. Of course, the top image of the overstriked coin may look slightly distorted. The main question is, how do we eventally grade such coins? The current method of grading coins is only by its first strike, but never multiple trikes of different designs on one surface. Do we grade such coins by their overall apperances, or do we go further by trying to grade how far we could see the previous background design too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Well, as when grading any coin, the grade is based on what was ( I shall say typical for lack of a better word ) typically best for a given series, date and mint. So if all or almost all of a given coin were overstrikes, then the grade is based on what can be expected to be the best of the lot. And yes it is usually based on the current strike, not the previous strike. But I have seen times where both strikes have been graded, albeit not by one of the TPG's. Personally I don't care for overstrikes. I find the coins to be distracting because I can see the original image under the new one. This takes away from the beauty of the coin IMO. But to others - this same thing is what makes these coins all the more interesting. Chocolate & vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 The current method of grading coins is only by its first strike, but never multiple trikes of different designs on one surface. Thanks for the links and the history lessons. Before I read that, the first thing that came to mind for me was the issues of the Bar Kokhbar revolt overstruck on Roman denarii and other coins. Those series raises a host of questions, which I will address in my reply to GDSTMP. I find it curious that only the first strike would be graded. To my mind, the last strike is the one that counts. Take for example, emergency "klippe" money. Suppose you had a nice sharp strike with virtually no wear, but -- by whatever means -- you could tell that it had been made from a serving tray that had been used for 100 years. Do you grade the silver square (planchet) or the strike of the coin? I suppose we could get philosophical here. I mean, what is the essential difference between an overstrike and countermark? One "covers the whole coin" and the other does not. But you see the point... Take the famous "head of a fool" British dollars. A nice sharp Spanish dollar with a nice sharp countermark is probably preferable to a lot of wear on both, but we accept that the Spanish coins were taken as found when countermarked. With verbal grading, you can pretty much grade any coin truthfully, accurately, and precisely. If you want to give it an AU-56, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Personally I don't care for overstrikes. I find the coins to be distracting because... As you say, "chocolate and vanilla." See above, though. How do you relate to the Bar Kochba siliver coins, probably all of which are overstrikes? While the "beauty" of a denarius might be lost, the very fact that you and identify that coin as the undertype tells you something. Compile an inventory of such and you know more about the historical event, because they were overstruck on a wide range of silvers. It is not that I collect them, myself, because I do not. And as of yet I have no special interest in the place, the time, or the event. However, they do comprise a significant aspect of numismatics as history you hold in your hand. So, I agree that it is a matter of preference. I am just curious about yours, since you seem like exactly the kind of guy who would be fascinated by overstrikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Well I don't know how else to say it other than I just don't like them because of the way they look. I'm a visual kinda guy I guess - it's always been the design that appeals to me. I don't care how old, how rare, how much history, how lustrous it is, or if it grades 69 - if I don't like the design - I don't like the coin and have no desire to own it. And with most overstrikes, both designs are ruined in my eyes because they overlap each other. One design ruins the other. Now I enjoy the study of overstrikes and how they came to be. This can often present some fascinating aspects of history. But to own the coins themselves as a part of my collection - I'll pass. As you probably know I'm a fan of French Royal coinage - in particular Louis IIII. But many of the coins from his later years are overstrikes. And in some years, there's nothing but overstrikes. For this reason - I don't own any of those coins. But that doesn't stop me from looking. And IF the day ever comes when I can find an example of one where the overstrike completely obliterates the original strike and the design is as intended - I'll buy that puppy in a heartbeat ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28Plain Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 I don't remember the exact grades assigned, but Bob Reis had a couple of overstrikes on a list a few years ago graded something like: "VF on an aG" From that I assume they're graded by some in a fashion which is descriptive of both strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 I most agree with GDJMSP's point of view - why bother getting such overstriked coins when they look so awful. You see, if you are lucky, you can get to see up to three different strikes, yes, not two, or as in double overstrikes on a single coin. Most certainly interesting but awful for visual apperance. Will try to post some .swf files of such coins when I find time to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 As you probably know I'm a fan of French Royal coinage - in particular Louis IIII. But many of the coins from his later years are overstrikes. And in some years, there's nothing but overstrikes. For this reason - I don't own any of those coins. Did your really mean Louis IV, or Louis XIIII? I suspect the latter (From another more recent fan of French Royal Coinage, although i'm drawn more to Louis XVI than to the Sun King, although i do like the yound head portrait of Louis XIIII, Louis XIII coins look good to me though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 The first thing that comes to my mind with the overstruck coins are two 'issues'. Firstly the counterstamped reales as mentioned by Mr Marotta earlier, commonly referred to as the "head of a fool on the head of an ass with neither king being worth a crown" since they traded at 4 shillings and odd rather than 5 shillings. And then there are the fully overstruck British 1804 Bank of England Dollars, which i find to be very attractive coins, although i've never considered buying one because to me they aren't real issues, but more token issues by the Bank of England, which means they're not regal coinage which rules them out of my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 One last thing; According to Coincraft catalogue the countermarked coin (i.e not fully over struck coins) are graded on the grade of the orginial strike. So counterstamped 8 reales with the head of George III are graded on original strike. Fully over struck coins i imagine are graded on the second strike. I would imagine (or at least i believe i've read) that coins with details (like the date) of the original host coin showing, or ones where you can identify the host coin are worth more than completely obliterated host coins. Although i reckon that's one for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Did your really mean Louis IV, or Louis XIIII? I suspect the latter Well since the coins are struck as Louis IIII - you suspect correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.