bobh Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I like the looks of most of these coins, but some of the commemoratives have strange pitting in the fields (especially the Gangut rouble which is listed as "1913" ): Russian coins offered for auction by "aspencoins" Has anyone dealt with this seller before? Looks like they are OK from the feedback. I probably won't be bidding on any of the more expensive ones, but I am watching several to see how high they will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 some good stuff there... probably all fakes, and a hijacked account, please dont anyone here bid on any of the coins. of course, im joking. but seriously, I bought 1 coin awhile back, from this seller, without problem. Im sure the usual suspect snipers are already on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 [quote name='squirrel' post='345607' date='Sep 7 2007, 02:11 PM']Im sure the usual suspect snipers are already on board [/quote] Sure Thanks to Bob for information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khokhloma Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Nice, thanks for the link, see some late silver roubles I collect which is harder and harder to get these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Most of these auctions are ending now or very soon ... would be interesting to know if anybody was able to win something from these interesting offerings! (of course, I get 15% buyers' fee/commission off of the final bid ... after all, I posted the link here! ... ...) Here's my "loot" from this seller: Pyatak, 1765-EM (NOVODEL) . . For awhile, I thought I was going to win it by bidding the Brekke price from 1987! But 2x Brekke, plus a little for inflation, did the trick! Of course, I only placed my bid during the last 5 seconds of the auction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 nice one! i dont suppose you will be on the star of the show... The Gangut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 nice one! i dont suppose you will be on the star of the show... The Gangut No, I didn't bid on that one. Although I think it is probably a genuine coin and has good detail, I couldn't decide whether the many problems this coin has would be worth it, even if it would be possible to snag it for about 10%-20% of what most problem-free Gangut roubles will bring nowadays at (non-eBay!) auctions. But maybe someone else might find it to be a bargain?? Hope so, anyway ... Besides, this coin is already at the limit of what I usually spend on coins (at least until Jan. 2008)! And over and above that, I don't really like the design of the Gangut rouble all that much ... the 1912 Napoleon Commemorative rouble is much more to my liking! But I'll need to save up another year or so until I am ready for that one! Cheers, Josh! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Most of these auctions are ending now or very soon ... would be interesting to know if anybody was able to win something from these interesting offerings! (of course, I get 15% buyers' fee/commission off of the final bid ... after all, I posted the link here! ... ...) Here's my "loot" from this seller: Pyatak, 1765-EM (NOVODEL) . . For awhile, I thought I was going to win it by bidding the Brekke price from 1987! But 2x Brekke, plus a little for inflation, did the trick! Of course, I only placed my bid during the last 5 seconds of the auction... Congratulations, Bob, on your great purchase There were only a few coins in this group that were within my budget, or so I thought. I bid on one of them: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 but the bidding went beyond my expectation. The problem is that I don't know what to expect anymore. Was $224.50 a reasonable price for this 1897 Rouble? What about the 1912 Rouble that went for $177.50? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Congratulations, Bob, on your great purchase Thanks! There were only a few coins in this group that were within my budget, or so I thought. I bid on one of them:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 but the bidding went beyond my expectation. The problem is that I don't know what to expect anymore. Was $224.50 a reasonable price for this 1897 Rouble? On the surface, if this is really UNC, then it is a bargain; for AU, I think it's a little too much. However, I looked at it again and realized that this is a rare variety: the crossbars on the bottom of the "Б" and the "Ь" are missing! Kazakov quotes prices of this variety as follows: F = $2,000 VF = $4,000 XF = $6,000 UNC = $8,000 So whoever bought it probably got a great bargain, if it is indeed this rare variety. We can't tell for sure because (at least according to V.V. Kazakov) this variety also has an edge with one "birdie" (or broken star, if you don't believe in birdies). What about the 1912 Rouble that went for $177.50?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 I probably would have bid that much for it if I had been looking for roubles. But having found the Novodel, I had to limit my buying here... (whistling: "If I were a rich man .... da di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da...") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Does anyone have any recent auction references for this coin (1765-EM Novodel, Brekke #205)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Does anyone have any recent auction references for this coin (1765-EM Novodel, Brekke #205)? World Wide #17 (1990) Lot 676 $425 World Wide #40 (2001) Lot 432 Not really recent, but I dont normally track Novodels. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Thanks!On the surface, if this is really UNC, then it is a bargain; for AU, I think it's a little too much. However, I looked at it again and realized that this is a rare variety: the crossbars on the bottom of the "Б" and the "Ь" are missing! Kazakov quotes prices of this variety as follows: F = $2,000 VF = $4,000 XF = $6,000 UNC = $8,000 So whoever bought it probably got a great bargain, if it is indeed this rare variety. We can't tell for sure because (at least according to V.V. Kazakov) this variety also has an edge with one "birdie" (or broken star, if you don't believe in birdies). I probably would have bid that much for it if I had been looking for roubles. But having found the Novodel, I had to limit my buying here... (whistling: "If I were a rich man .... da di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da, di-da...") Thank you Bob. Unfortunately I am handicapped by lack of experience. I sat for over an hour watching the bidding on the 1897 Rouble and wondering how high I should go. Something kept telling me to go for it but ultimataly I gave in to my insecurity and just walked away. The 1912 Rouble I had seen go for less, but probably not in as good a condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 like this one? http://www.thauctions.com/default.aspx?doc...;s=&c1=1001 note eagle has some tiny differences.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 like this one? http://www.thauctions.com/default.aspx?doc...;s=&c1=1001 note eagle has some tiny differences.. Thanks for posting this link, squirrel. The differences are numerous, and not just in the eagle. I looked long and hard at the illustrations in Brekke before bidding on this one, and I didn't see anything suspicious about it. Right now I am away from my books visiting relatives in the U.S.A. until about Oct. 15th; however, I did receive the coin here (trying to save on postage and VAT ) and will try to post some pictures here over the weekend. If anything, the coin in the Høiland auction seems to diverge more from the Brekke illustrations than the coin I bought. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that either of these coins is not genuine. Brekke does mention that some of the earlier Novodel series were not always struck from the same set of dies. According to Brekke (I'm writing this off of the top of my head since I am not at home), dies were custom-made for the person placing the order for the coins (for Class 2 Novodels like this coin, that is) and then often destroyed. Later on, when more coins were ordered, new dies had to be prepared. Eventually, they decided not to destroy the dies in case more orders were placed at a later date. Whether or not this particular series was struck from more than one set of dies is something that only an expert on these things would know. For now, I am going to trust that this dealer is telling the truth in that experts have looked at the coin and pronounced it genuine. The auction description did state that there is a "lifetime guarantee" on authenticity of the coins sold. Some little things about the lettering of the legends on the Høiland coin bother me, though ... according to Brekke, these coins were probably struck sometime after 1840 when there were more advanced die preparation methods available. One would expect the letters to be more evenly formed than those on this coin; little things like the alignment of the letters and even the placement of the dot between "ПЯТЬ" and "КОПЋЕКЪ" on the Høiland coin seem wrong to me. However, the shape of the digit "5" looks a little better than that of my coin; but the loop of the "E" in Ekaterina in relation to the "II" looks a little off on the Høiland coin. The edge of my coin looks OK, too ... the weight and diameter are as they should be (thinner and wider planchet than the regular strikes from 1765). It seems that the auction pictures have been removed in the meantime. I will try to post copies of those on my own site, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Here is the link to my pictures: 1765-EM Novodel (Brekke 205) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Wonderful coin, Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted October 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Wonderful coin, Bob! Спасибо, белка! In the meantime, I'm back in Switzerland after visiting with my amazing mom and my sister for 4 weeks. Mom is 85 now and just had triple bypass surgery from which she has recovered nicely. She will probably outlive us both! Anyway, I have investigated this coin a little more and looked at Uzdenikov, Bitkin and Brekke (again). I had forgotten that there are so many variants of this coin. When I was bidding on the coin, I just ignored Brekke 206A and B after seeing that it was 205, as the auction description correctly stated. The coin in the Høiland auction, as well as one from one of the Goldberg or WorldWide auctions I could find, both look like Brekke 206B. Interestingly enough, this is also the only image shown by Uzdenikov (#2661, plate 146 on p.355 at the bottom). My coin is Brekke 205 which is listed in Bitkin as H662 on page 662 of the 2nd edition. Interestingly enough, there is also a variant of this coin with a plain edge, according to him. Here is the reference in Bitkin with more variants listed than Brekke has: Finally, I'd like to share some scans I made ... Brekke puts this incredibly beautiful coin right on the cover of his book; if you have it, you can refer to that because it is a wonderful picture. His coin is also in better shape than mine, which I might grade AU if I didn't know that these coins never actually circulated (or did they? One of the Novodels described by Bitkin in the column "auction prices realized" apparently was only XF... ) I compared the reverse with that of my coin and found two areas with somewhat similar striking weakness, perhaps attributable to overpolishing the die (circled in red on my coin's image). Little details like this make me believe that the coin is indeed genuine: In another thread -- was it you, squirrel? -- there was a vote for the most beautiful eagle design. Well, I'd have to say that if novodels are allowed, I would vote for this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted October 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Found another matching characteristic: on the right side of the letter "П" there is what appears to be a die chip or cud of some sort. I was able to find it on the Brekke coin, too -- and if you look at the Bitkin picture, there is also a little shadow there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Спасибо, белка! In another thread -- was it you, squirrel? -- there was a vote for the most beautiful eagle design. Well, I'd have to say that if novodels are allowed, I would vote for this one! Very beautiful bird indeed, Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Nice one Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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