sigistenz Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 CoinPeople's Squirrel showed his bent 5kop1788SPM in a recent thread. Here is mine. I do not remember having seen other bent 5kopCatherineII pieces. It must be very difficult to bend those - and how and why did it occur? The impression at the south of the monogram could have happened at the mint by another coin or by the minting tool? Any better ideas? Thank you, Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Sigi, my first impression is that a coin was struck on top of it or under it and somehow managed to ruin the coin. I don't see how a normal person can try to post-mint damage it under "normal" conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 i dont know anything about the mechanism of the press, but i assume the coins were ejected mechanicaly after striking, and somehow jammed up. Im sure someone here must have a reference to or illustration of the machine? If the planchet was bent prior to striking, would not the strike flatten the coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 There is no evidence I can see of a double strike and the coin is not flat. We can thus rule out a double w/ first strike off center. A double with another planchet over this piece is likewise ruled out since there is no doubling on either side and neither side shows smashing of the design. Another planchet under this piece would likewise create some strange effects which again are not seen. The ejection mechanism was not strong enuf to bend a coin and it does not show smashing or smearing of the design to indicatethat it was trapped in the press. We are thus left with post-strike impact damage. Tough to say what happened. People do strange things to coins. Deliberate damage in a vice? Whacked with a cylinder of some sort? Part of a bag that got dropped just right and thus impression of another coin's rim? Measuring the radius of the curved mark and comparing it to the radius of another coin might help. Not sure that it would mean anything tho. Post-strike damage is not considered a mint error and does not carry a premium regardless of what one proposes as the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted June 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 Rittenhouse, I must confess now that I tried to straighten the coin in a vise (between 2 little beechwood boards). Not the slightest change! I know now that it is not possible to bend a coin like this manually, i.e. opening a paint can or working a screw. IMHO the accident must have happened at the mint somehow. Maybe the screw press hit the already ejecting coin? Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Rittenhouse, I must confess now that I tried to straighten the coin in a vise (between 2 little beechwood boards).<br> Not the slightest change! I know now that it is not possible to bend a coin like this manually, i.e. opening a paint can or working a screw.<br> IMHO the accident must have happened at the mint somehow. Maybe the screw press hit the already ejecting coin? Sigi Sigi, I worked as an engineer in the metal forming industry. I assure you that I can bend your piece with hand tools. If you want to flatten it, you'll need a fairly large vice (say one with at least a 2" screw) and you'll need to heat the coin. Anyway, could this have happened at the mint? Maybe some mint employee grabs it to use as a test piece, spacer or load block? Sure. But that makes no difference. It is still post-strike damage. No premium, nothing special. Well OK, maybe special if you can prove the Czar himself did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted June 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sigi, It is still post-strike damage. No premium, nothing special. Well OK, maybe special if you can prove the Czar himself did it.Thank you, rittenhouse for your advice how to mend the coin. How hot would it have to be? Red hot? Or in the range of oven temperatures? Wouldn't it loose the nice chocolate tone? Agreed that it must be a post strike damage and that's why I have been eager to replace it since I had bought it on the basis of a poor picture not showing the damage. But what I have seen since was not better and my bids at the 2 Copenhagen sales were without success, just drove the price up. I am not after a premium, I just wondered how this could have happened. I've seen lots of the type - but never bent. (Aside of Squirrel's bowl which initiated my post) - Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Around 400C should do the trick. You'll need a fairly hefty vice faced with hickory, iron wood or lignum vitae. White oak might be hard enuf. Probably take a couple shots. You might get some color change but you can recolor with a mixture of flowers of sulfur and vaseline. You may not even notice, the 5Ks sure ain't gonna win no beauty contest. Personally I'd just leave it. It's kinda cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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