Oldman Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Gentlemen ! Excuse me .... but what is "avatar" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Gentlemen ! Excuse me .... but what is "avatar" ? You don't have one. Your avatar is the image which appears below your screen-name. My avatar is an image of an extremely rare pattern rouble of Peter II, although I am considering changing it to an image of a coin that I actually own, rather than just one I can only dream of owning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 This is conmemorative jeton: a copper novodel of very rare gold jetton dedicated to court circus festival (by V. Bitkin) or court roller-coaster What is interesting about this piece is that according to pre-1917 sources original jeton was made in gold and silver and in 2 varietes (all are very rare). Original jeton beared the date of June 16, 1766 - date of the event. However there is a complete series of novodel jetons, which are distinguished by error date - July 11, 1766 (!) On top of that - this is a novodel which most probably was minted in 18 century (it is completely different to 19 cent copper novodels, which are not rare). Portrait die is apparently from the gold coin. This jetton is in circulated condition which is also strange thing for a novodel. I did not think of the possibility of a jeton. It is a very unusual piece for many different reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I was unable to find original 1766 in silver. If anyone reading this ever sees one, grab it. Timofei, I think it will be interesting for you to see lot 4691 in the upcoming Gorny auction. If it is real, it will be a nice companion to your copper novodel jeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 You don't have one. Your avatar is the image which appears below your screen-name. My avatar is an image of an extremely rare pattern rouble of Peter II, although I am considering changing it to an image of a coin that I actually own, rather than just one I can only dream of owning. Gotcha ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 4691 in the upcoming Gorny auction.If it is real......... I do not think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I do not think so... You might be right, I don't know. What do you see that causes doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 You might be right, I don't know. What do you see that causes doubt? Everything. Portrait, letters, style, strike. This lot is fake, they should withdraw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Everything. Portrait, letters, style, strike. This lot is fake, they should withdraw it. Copper jetons are not things I know very much about. Can you provide a link to a picture of known genuine example of this jeton (in any metal)? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Copper jetons are not things I know very much about. Can you provide a link to a picture of known genuine example of this jeton (in any metal)? Thank you. Geuine example does not look like the Gorny lot at all. There is no portrait on it. I did not look closely at the Gorny piece, since novodels are not my area of collecting. Looks like I will be able to see it person, will report then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Everything. Portrait, letters, style, strike. This lot is fake, they should withdraw it. I think this link might be interesting to everyone "praying" for Mr Gorny http://www.michelvanrijn.nl/artnews/fakest.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Geuine example does not look like the Gorny lot at all. There is no portrait on it.I did not look closely at the Gorny piece, since novodels are not my area of collecting. Looks like I will be able to see it person, will report then. There is a set of at least 5 medals dedicated to the event and 1 jeton. The original jeton had nothing in common with this piece of copper, though the latter resembles vaguely medal layout. Original jetton in silver is common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Russian forum continued their discussion of lint marks on coins/medals in relationship to identifying fakes. They say some things are obvious - if two coins have the same lint mark, they are fakes. This should make sense, but here is information I found on Stack's site in describing a gold 1870 $20: "When the obverse die was engraved, a complex lint mark was created curling through IBE of LIBERTY which appears raised on the coin. This lint mark should be present on all 1870 Proof double eagles struck from this obverse die, as the lint mark almost certainly was created when the die was made by the master hub". After reading the above and all the other posts on the subject, I guess we need to break lint marks into categories: 1. Raised. 2. Indented, but do not create raised edges. 3. Indented, but create raised edges. I looked around the net for more images of coin with lint marks. Here are a few: http://www.harrybassfoundation.org/basscat...?id=33/0276.jpg http://images.heritagecoin.com/images/hnai...s/430/l4183.jpg One thing is for certain - list marks exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Russian forum continued their discussion of lint marks on coins/medals in relationship to identifying fakes.They say some things are obvious - if two coins have the same lint mark, they are fakes. This should make sense, but here is information I found on Stack's site in describing a gold 1870 $20: "When the obverse die was engraved, a complex lint mark was created curling through IBE of LIBERTY which appears raised on the coin. This lint mark should be present on all 1870 Proof double eagles struck from this obverse die, as the lint mark almost certainly was created when the die was made by the master hub". After reading the above and all the other posts on the subject, I guess we need to break lint marks into categories: 1. Raised. 2. Indented, but do not create raised edges. 3. Indented, but create raised edges. I looked around the net for more images of coin with lint marks. Here are a few: http://www.harrybassfoundation.org/basscat...?id=33/0276.jpg http://images.heritagecoin.com/images/hnai...s/430/l4183.jpg One thing is for certain - list marks exist Indeed a lint mark that was transferred on a die from a hub will be found on coins struck with that die. But it will be raised on a coin. Rare event though. That is something different and was not subject for discussion. On the contrary, in that thread on Russian forum the starter of the topic from the beginning said that "lint marks" look as dents. I have never seen a fake coin with lint marks on it. Lint marks are found mostly on Proof or Specimen struck coins and I've never seen fake Proof or Specimen. So when I see a Proof or Specimen with lint marks, I think it is quite natural. I wish someone post good pictures of fakes with lint marks. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Indeed a lint mark that was transferred on a die from a hub will be found on coins struck with that die. But it will be raised on a coin. Rare event though. That is something different and was not subject for discussion. On the contrary, in that thread on Russian forum the starter of the topic from the beginning said that "lint marks" look as dents. WCO, You have to read other posts more carefully. Or are you just repeating everything I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 WCO, You have to read other posts more carefully. Or are you just repeating everything I said? The meaning was: Raised lint marks are not subject of discassion neither on Russian forum nor in this thread. And I do not see how it repeats you. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 The meaning was: Raised lint marks are not subject of discassion neither on Russian forum nor in this thread. And that's why I brought it up, along with listing the lint marks mentioned in other posts. This way there is understanding by the readers on what lint marks could be seen on coins and how they originate. When I found that piece of information on raised lint marks, I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share it with members of this forum. Let's leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 ... along with listing the lint marks mentioned in other posts... So it was you "just repeating"?... Anyways, thank you for the info. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 And that's why I brought it up, along with listing the lint marks mentioned in other posts. This way there is understanding by the readers on what lint marks could be seen on coins and how they originate. When I found that piece of information on raised lint marks, I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share it with members of this forum. I have never seen raised lint marks in real life. I think they must be much less common than the indented kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Interesting coin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true Pictures are awful there with colors off but something that looks very much as a large lint mark is at 1 O'clock on obverse. Could it be that this coin is a Specimen? WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Interesting coin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true Pictures are awful there with colors off but something that looks very much as a large lint mark is at 1 O'clock on obverse. Could it be that this coin is a Specimen? WCO No way - SP here stands for St. Petersburg Mint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Interesting coin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true Pictures are awful there with colors off but something that looks very much as a large lint mark is at 1 O'clock on obverse. Could it be that this coin is a Specimen? WCO It looks to me that the "lint mark" is really just some dust on the surface of the slab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Interesting coin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true Pictures are awful there with colors off but something that looks very much as a large lint mark is at 1 O'clock on obverse. WCO In our history we had this period called McCarthism. You all heard about that....The posting above is an example of it Some people see what the want to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 In our history we had this period called McCarthism. You all heard about that....The posting above is an example of it Some people see what the want to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 OK, I'll translate What I wanted to say that some people see whatever they WANT TO SEE...in this case it is a "lint mark" on a proof coin (or holder, or camera, or ??); in 1950s it was the "red devil" ...just an allegory..for those who cares . Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.