bobh

http://wine.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=2334&ic=rightcolumn-massandra-032513

Anybody win anything?

:drinks:

There was a 1787-TM 20 kopeck coin sold in the last Gorny & Mosch auction ... but I presume you are talking about copper.

How about this one (F.R. Künker next week)?

http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=651&category=14351&lot=661623

In 1991 I rode a bicycle from Brunssum (NL) to a town in Germany that I don't even recall the name of (found it on Google maps: Hillensberg), primarily because I could. There was a customs booth basically in the middle of a field (this was very much a back road), and all that happened was the man inside nodded at me when I slowed down and glanced through the window to see if anyone was actually there. (And looking at it from street view this simply doesn't match my recollection of the trip so I may be confusing two different trips or something.)

 

Anyhow I note this thread is about a 1760 piatak, not a Nicholas II minor coin or European travel... so I guess I've just participated in the hijacking of an already hijacked thread.

In 1991, things were VERY different! The Swiss are technically part of the Schengen group of countries; they don't check your passport at the border anywhere except at the airport. But they still want to collect the VAT because they decided to go their own way for that. With Schengen, the Swiss have access to the criminal data in the EU database (Interpol, etc.) But they want to have their cake and eat it, too, as far as the VAT is concerned. The big question is, how long this will continue?

And don't worry about hijacking the thread -- it's my fault, because Sigi went to the G&M auction 183 in Munich (the Tom W. Bakken sale), and I almost went there myself, so we could have met in person. Unfortunately, I decided that it was wiser to invest the money I would have had to pay for the trip instead into bidding on a coin.

I'll post some more details in a separate thread. And no, I didn't win anything!

Here is a link to my other post with some more details about my experience at the auction:

http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?/topic/33447-5kop1760-mm-bitkin-r1-grading-u/page__view__findpost__p__585751

Thank you, Bob, it worked! As to Munich, I wish you luck. What you are after will probably be a Nicholas II beauty. But as I don't know your collection it is difficult to guess - ah - did you win in lotto (for the 25 Rubles?).

Hope to meet you some day!

Regards, Sigi

No, unfortunately no lotto winnings! But Nicholas II sounds good (hint: it's not a rouble, and not gold...and well worth traveling to Munich to view the coin and bid on it in person...)

Thanks for the good luck wish ... I think I shall need it!

I was interested in lot 5138 - 50 kopecks 1906. It was advertised as XF/AU (German = "vorzüglich") with a "tiny rim ding" (German = "winziger Randfehler"). Knowing that if the description were correct, it would probably go for something between €4,000 - €5,000, but if it was NOT correct, that it would be a very costly mistake to bid that much, I went to look at it in person. Besides, if I had won the coin, I wasn't going to let them send it by mail, anyway. So I had to go. It was the only coin in the entire auction that I was really interested in.

The coin, when held in hand, showed absolutely no trace of luster in the fields. With my 10x jeweler's loupe, I could tell that under the patina and in the exposed areas of the field, there were many hairlines which revealed that it had been cleaned many years ago (IMHO). The rim knock was not what I would call "tiny". Definitely a problem coin, but because of the extreme rarity of the date, and the admittedly very nice details, I decided to go ahead and bid. However, I set a limit of €2,500.

As it turns out, the opening bid was already €2,200 and after I backed out, it went up to €3,800. I don't know if the winning bid came out of the room, perhaps from someone on the telephone, or from the internet live bidding.

There were two nice 5 kopeck copper coins I had seen which I also decided to bid on (lot 5048, 1792-KM and lot 5070, 1805-EM), but in both cases was overbid.

Anyway, I was spared the ordeal of dealing with Swiss import VAT regulations and getting the German/EU VAT reimbursed. It is not as easy now with Schengen ... nobody checks in the fast trains except for spot checking, and if you have ANYTHING to declare, you must register it in advance IN WRITING! (But how can you do this for auction winnings which you cannot possibly know in advance how much they cost? If I had won something, I would have to leave the goods in Munich, come back to Switzerland with the invoice, and make a second trip to pick up the coins! )The Zollhäuser (customs booths at the border) still stand, but they are almost always empty now, even at the ferry harbors in Friedrichshafen and Romanshorn on the Bodensee (Lake Constance). About the only place you can take goods such as auction winnings in person and declare them before entering the country the normal way is now at the airport in Zurich (presumably in Geneva, too). But it only cost me a little more than CHF 100 to take the train into Munich and back since I have a year-round rail pass for Switzerland due to my work. Flying is something like CHF 700 or even more. Otherwise, if they catch you crossing the border by train, you have no chance to voluntarily declare anything and are treated like a common criminal if you have goods in excess of CHF 300 (for Swiss residents ... probably less for visitors).

You can view the Russian lots here on Sixbid:

http://www.sixbid.co...&category=14607

Here is a link to another thread post of mine with a few more details and opinions about the auction: http://www.coinpeopl...post__p__585602

Marv:

There was a 1910 proof rouble in an NGC slab, but only PR-63 grade, which just sold at Gorny & Mosch in Munich (only four hours ago!) for €7,500 plus juice. The estimate was €3,000 (lot 5134).

It was a very interesting, yet somewhat disappointing auction as far as the Russian coins were concerned. Kind of slim pickings, and many of the better things didn't find an interested buyer (including the heavily-hyped, unlisted, presumably unique Paul I rouble, lot 5056 with an estimate of €200,000 -- talk about egg on one's face). Couple of pricey items were also withdrawn ... 1895 pattern gold 10 roubles (lot 5128 which must have been a very ambitious fantasy piece) and lot 5075 which had an erroneous description (so-called "Trubetzkoi rouble"). Lot 5132, an 1897 donative gold "Imperial" 10 rouble coin, did very well (€150,000 with an estimate of €100,000). A couple of Yefimoks were ex Hesselgesser; these also did quite well.

I'll post some more details in a separate thread. And no, I didn't win anything!

Thank you, Bob, it worked! As to Munich, I wish you luck. What you are after will probably be a Nicholas II beauty. But as I don't know your collection it is difficult to guess - ah - did you win in lotto (for the 25 Rubles?).

Hope to meet you some day!

Regards, Sigi

No, unfortunately no lotto winnings! But Nicholas II sounds good (hint: it's not a rouble, and not gold...and well worth traveling to Munich to view the coin and bid on it in person...)

Thanks for the good luck wish ... I think I shall need it!

Yes indeed, I'm sorry I don't know how to edit the title.

Sigi

Hi Sigi,

If you can edit the original post, you should also be able to edit the title by merely typing over what you want to change when the message comes up in edit mode. The link to edit a post is somewhat hidden, but if you hold the mouse pointer over the empty space to the left of the buttons marked "MultiQuote" and "Quote", the link "Edit" should magically appear (next to "Report").

After that, you need to click on "Use Full Editor" in order to edit the title.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow in Munich, BTW, and the missed opportunity I had to meet you in person at the Bakken sale a couple of years ago!

(Three guesses as to which coin I am interested in there ... )

this large group of russian-polish coinage even sinkona part one had 53 lots but in its part I so far, can be same amount in part II, i like Alexander auction house not only for its top quality auction catalogs but for they imput in every lot for sale, comprehensive description, even here in one lot has several coins - but each is photograph - who else can do like this ?

Yes, and there is also a picture of the edge. I've never seen that in most other auctions.

Interesting, that they are offering the slabbed coins separately from the rest.

The MARCH 2013 Auction Schedule

of auctions around the globe,

containing russian coins, medals, awards, literature

 

If anyone wants to add one/few other auctions pls do so !

 

March 7 Gorny & Mosch auction 213 Munich Germany

European collection of gold siver and copper coins. Gold Imperial for auction !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Internet auctions 24/7 with russian coinage:

www.ebay.com

www.molotok.ru

www.vcoins.com

www.delcampe.com

 

 

P.S. All dates of auctions taken from www.sixbid.com, www.m-dv.ru, www.numisbids.com

F.R. Künker, Auction 230 - 14/15 March 2013

I found this in the meantime:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_Hawaiian_dollar#Medcalf_.26_Russell_numbers

Does anyone know of a good online reference or a book for Hawaiian coinage which covers varieties? I'm thinking of something along the lines of what Newcomb did for large cents, or Ahwash for seated dimes... berry counting, that kind of stuff.

This is a .900 silver coin and weighing 20 grams, it has about $17 worth of silver in it so definitely not a coin you want to throw away

In very nice BU condition, this coin might easily bring $200-$300 or more in today's market. In XF/AU condition, around $100 - $150. In VF condition, maybe $40-$50?

Here are some recent prices:

http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/page,2/id,980/prohod.html

Looks OK to me ... 1913 Tercentenary rouble, flat strike variety, VF grade (IMHO), but some nasty scratches and/or grafitti on the obverse, probably cleaned some time ago.

As to mintage, there were two varieties -- flat and embossed strike. The flat strike variety is listed as very rare in some references, if it is listed at all. But more recent statistical studies indicate that the real relative scarcity is that there are about 1/3 as many coins available for sale at auctions of the flat strike variety compared with embossed strike, i.e. the flat strike is not that scarce at all.

Congratulations, Marv! You neglected to mention that they gave you a PR-66.

It's really a spectacular coin, and a scarce year at that!

As an interesting side note, I am reading Robert K. Massie's fascinating history "Nicholas and Alexandra" these days. In there he writes that in 1901, St. Petersburg had four opera houses, but Nicholas II wanted to build another, much larger and for more popular productions -- the "Narodny Dom". Entrance fee for such productions was set at 20 kopecks.

Between 1893, when his father Alexander III was still Tsar, and 1900 there had been no 20 k. coins minted. I wonder if one of the motivations for reintroducing this denomination was to facilitate change-making at the ticket booths at the new theater?

The USA did much the same thing in the 1850's when the postage for a regular letter was set at 3 cents. To make it easier on the postal clerks and customers buying stamps, they introduced the 3 cent silver coin.

I have the non-proof circulated edition of this coin (1901-ФЗ). The guide I had been using, the ngccoin guide, had a listing of all the years of this particular variety of the 20 kopek and that is what I have been using for comparison. The coin guide also mentioned that the numbers of this coin minted were similar to the editions issued the years afterwards and I just it was odd that it was listed at $22 while the others were listed at $8. I think the guide you give me is more spot on with its analysis thanks for the help.

$22 seems much too expensive if only in VG grade. I think there must be some kind of error in the reference here. Maybe it was supposed to be $2 and not $22?

The Kazakov catalog, which is devoted entirely to the coinage of Nicholas II, gives about the same valuation to 20k 1901-ФЗ as to 1902. Also, according to Kazakov, the rarer mintmaster variety (АР) was struck in proof only. The catalog, published in 2004, gives prices (in US-$) of F=3, VF=10, XF=70, MS=150, and proof=500. You can find more recent auction prices for most Russian coins here: http://m-dv.ru

Can you be more specific about the dates and varieties of the other 20k coins to which you are comparing this one?

Would love to come, but airfare is pretty high lately.

BTW, Kunker also posted their March auction. Not going there either.

But let's meet up at Sincona in October.

Sure, that would be great!

March 7 -- some nice Russian lots will be auctioned.

I'm thinking about going. Would be nice to meet some of you in person if you're there, too.

The coin arrived, my pics are not that clear. I have to try at some better ones.

But it does show great luster. I would guess MS63 I'm not sure it's a 64 as the

Few rubs on the obverse high spots may hold it back.

Not sure if the black or white background looks better?

I think MS-64 is possible. And I like the black background.

Which mintmaster initials are engraved on the edge? (B.C) is the more common of the two varieties for 1913; (Э.Б) is much scarcer.

"Rassia" (which is not the Czech word for Russia or Russian)

Actually, the pronunciation of «Россия» ("Rossiya" = "Russia" in Russian) is closer to "Rassia" than "Rossia" because the "o", being an unaccented syllable before the accented syllable, is pronounced like an "a" as in German "Gasse" (i.e. pronunciation is like "Rassíya" with the accent on the "i").

Alas, slab is real: http://www.ngccoin.c...ber=2781463-020

The coin is very questionable though... I don't like the look of the eagle on both sides, looks like a chuke... and on the first photo, a part of the cloud on the left looks like a little Easter bunny... is there a need to compare it to the real dies?

Why would anyone fake something like this, though?