alexbq2

By conjecture! As far as I know in 60 and 61 only Moscow mint was active, so no other options. If you look at the1759 that I lumped into Moscow mint. The horse's mane is very distinct and looks just like that on the 1761. And if you look at 1760 and 1759 the crowns are very similar. When I look at BKB's 1759 I think I see the same crown and the mane looks the same as Moscow coins. Another "fact" is that Sestroretsk was presumably the only mint involved in overstriking Ore. So the first I coin posted from that series (in my opinion) has similar crown and the design of the wreath to the coins that follow, so I lumped them into the Sestroretsk group. The 1757 coin is somewhat distinct in the design of the crown and some other elements, so I am guessing it is from Ekaterinburg. BKB's 1757 has a very similar crown, so perhaps its the same mint. So basically I'm guessing a lot.

Ekaterinburg mint

Based on my guesses in the first post, I would say: 1757 - Ekaterinburg 1761 - Moscow (that's the easy one) 1759 - I would like to see a higher resolution image, but looks like Moscow 1758 - I can't tell since the crown did not make it and images are not high resolution enough to see the horse's mane.

Looking at the coins again, I think I may have messed up. I took the comment about 1758 Moscow mint overdate to be a sign that this is the Moscow mint coin. But I don't see why Ekaterinburg and Sestroretsk coins couldn't have 58/57 overdates. At the same time I see great deal of similarrities between the 1758 coins and Sestroretsk coins (more sure about Sestroretsk as it appears that only that mint was restriking Ore). As a result I just moved the coins around in the above post. See if that makes more sence.

I feel there should have been more from Ekaterinburg. Any thoughts?

I decided to take a look at 1 kopeek coins. Based on the same source of information, 1 kopeek coins were minted: - 1757 in Ekaterinburg and Sestroretsk (in Sestroretsk they were often made out of Swedish Ore). - 1758 in Moscow (Almost all are overdates from 1757), Ekaterinburg and Sestroretsk (in Sestroretsk they were often made out of Swedish Ore). - 1759 Ekaterinburg and Moscow - 1760 and 1761 only Moscow Unfortunately, no one in that discussion posted pictures. So I raided M-Dv archive. Not a lot of decent coins there, but there are some. Here are my guesses. Let's start with Moscow: Also these 2: Interesting that the above coin was sold at "Fritz Rudolf Kuenker GmbH" # 209 on 03.16.2012 for 750 EUR, and then on 11.18.2012 in Russia at "Империя" # 23 auction for 40000 RUB Ekaterinburg (My Guess): Sestroretsk (struck on an Ore): The above coin also traveled! On 12.18.2010 listed on Konros for 7000 RUB (no sale record on M-Dv), 09.15.2012 "Империя" # 22 listed for 30000-40000 estimate (no sale record on M-Dv), now can be purchased on Markov's upcoming auction, estimate 1000 USD. Note the overdate on the 1758 And here's my coin: Not sure where to place this "ugly duckling": "Gorny & Mosch GmbH" # 183 (10.15.2009) sold for 300 EUR

Additionally, I have learned that in 1757 St. Petersburg, Moscow, and Ekaterinburg mints made 2 kopeek coins with denomination above the rider. Only Ekaterinburg minted this type in subsequent years (58, 59, 60, 61). All coins of this type are overstrikes. Moscow and St. Petersburg re-edged all coins with a netted edge. Ekaterburg did not modify the edge. That's why 1757 inscription above rider is not considered to be rare with netted edge. Most Ekaterinburg overstrikes retain EKATERINBURG edge inscription, but some have the netted edge. It seems that Moscow edge inscription is possible in 1757, but apparently none are know or published. St. George seems to resemble that on the other 2 kopeek type. A couple of nice examples of 1757 Moscow and SPB were posted but not Ekaterinburg, so I stuck my coin at the end. It has EKATERINBURG edge, while the other 2 coins are netted.

No, just saw a post on a Russian forum, and thought it would be a good idea to warn you. Looking at it again I do notice that the tail is overlapping more of the "under" E on the top coin than it is on the second coin. Perhaps that was a false alarm. But seems very suspicious to have such similar overstrikes turn up.

You think so? The position of the undercoin is identical, all visible elements of the undercoin are the same, the dies of the 1764 appear to be the same. I think the only differences are from the actual host coin used.

Here we go again! This is not the same coin. The top one has a netted edge. The lower coin has a lettered edge.

I like your 1771 as well!

It's weird. Seems like they improved a few things from sellers point of view, and then compensated by rolling back things for the buyers??? I could be wrong but it looks like penny pinching. Reminds me of the old proverb "Penny wise but Pound foolish".

Joyeux Fetes et Bonne Annee!

A nice 1781 half bisti was sold on eBay for almost $500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321045420096

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out my coins as well! Most are EM. Here one EM example: Here's an SPB: This one is MMD incidentally it has MMD edge inscription:

Oops,corrected it.

I've been trying to digest some information that was posted by Mr. Evdokimov on one of Russian forums. He has managed to break down the 2 kopeek coins by mints that produced them. He published an article recently in one of Russian numismatic magazines. Not sure which one, and I have not seen the article. Does anyone have it? At any rate, here's a picture where he identifies St. George by the mints that produced the coin. Note that Moscow Mint (MMD) put a distinguishing mark on the back of the saddle. However early MMD coins didn't have it see #4. EM often has that ornament on the back of the lance. Apart from these unique elements, there seem to be stylistic differences between the mints. (Although St. Petersburg and Sestroretsk coins are indistinguishable). I noted that EM's horse is more rounded and has small ears. St. Petersburg and Moscow coins are pretty similar, if I understood the author correctly the horses mane on SPM coins should look like the one on this picture. Pretty interesting!

As far as your coin is concerned I would say that none of the elements of design of either side of the coin look genuine. Once again just try to read the denomination. I do believe that this was meant to be a TM.

Great Wall Paper and great coins. I think I see 2 Novodels on it!

Actually, none of the 2 kopeek coins of this type were purposefully made with an edge inscription. The edge inscription came from the 1755-57 1 kopeek coins. Moscow, Sestroretsk and St. Petersburg mints were re-edging all coins that they overstruck. Ekaterinburg mint didn't, at least not the coins with the denomination above St. George. Ekaterinburg also used edged inscription blanks prepared for the 1757 kopeek to make the 2 kopeeks with the inscription below St. George. As a result one can find coins with inscriptions above and below St. George with Ekaterinburg edge. Moscow edge is more challenging, and was not even listed in most catalogs until recently. Seems that these coins accidentally skipped re-edging at Moscow (and maybe St/ Petersburg) mints. I was lucky to find one such coin this year. And since it looks like 1 kopeek coins with St. Petersburg edge were limited to a few trial pieces, there are no known overstrikes with that edge. So a 1788 overstrike with an edge inscription would be made out of a 4 kopeek coin struck on one of those earlier 2 kopeeks that I described above.

There were no overstirikes at the TM mint. Thanks for the new pictures for your coin! Look at the denomination inscription. It looks like O in Kopeiki is squished looks almost like an I, and the last K and И are just bars | | | |. Whoever made this coin got really tired by the end. But I still think they were trying to make a TM.

I found the images of the coin I was referring to - the slabbed 1788 MM/TM:

Does anyone remember the discussion (quite recent) about a coin that was listed on ebay, it was an NGC slabbed 1788 fake TM? That coin was also an overstrike with recut M/M. And if memory serves me well, the last M looked kinda similar.

As I pointed out to Eugene earlier, the letters should be to the sides of the horse not under the horse. Interestingly M that I can see here looks a lot like M on that altered TM coin.

Here's a few links that have his posts, Evdokimov uses his initials as a nickname - GSE: http://coins.su/foru...%B4#entry743123 http://coins.su/foru...%B4#entry944434 http://coins.su/foru...pic=40450&st=75