grimm Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi everyone, I purchased an 1878 S Morgan at an auction the other day and have some questions about it. The auction listed the coin as a VAM 1d type and you can see the polishing scratches on the reverse in the eagles wing. Also the D in dollar is slightly doubled. On the obverse they said that there are scratches that pushed the grading of the coin down to AU. Now they are very hard to see unless you tilt the coin just right in the light. I took a look at the scratches in the microscope at 40x to check them out and see how extensive they were. Whoa!! They cover about 60 to 70 percent of the obverse side. I thought that was strange because they are really hard to see with the naked eye. I noticed that they were not like the usual bag marks, etc that I have seen before. I bumped the power up to 100x and took a very close look at them. It looked to me that the surface of the scratches had the same bumpy (frosty?) finish that the unscratched areas of the coin. I found a bag mark that crossed the scratches and sure enough the bag mark scratch was smooth. This tells me that the scratches were minted in and not put there later, right? I have heard of planchet scratches, but if that were the case, they would have smooth surfaces as well, wouldn't they? These scratches also have no deformation or changes you would think they would have if they had gone through the minting process. Is this a VAM type? I don't have the VAM book yet so I'm not able to check on it. Could this be scratches that were on the die master before the dies were made? Thanks for any help. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I don't know much about VAM types, but it sounds like extensive die polishing that would make that kind of mark. Another thing to look into is if there were any proof morgans made with that mintmark, because it's possible they used an overly polished proof die. But that may just be wishful thinking on my part. The doubled D sounds like a VAM variety, I'm sure you can find a link in our coin link section here. Good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimm Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi Vfox, Thanks so much for responding. There are definitly polishing scratches on the reverse, but they are raised off the surface of the coin and limited to the lowest parts of the design. These scratches on the obverse are mostly on the high points of the design, the cheek on Liberty and the letters, etc. These obverse scratches are very deep in some parts, but again they are very hard to see without magnification. I think that it is because they have the same texture as the rest of the coin and this helps to hide them. I'm thinking that it would be very difficult to put these scratches on the die itself by polishing, etc. The only other way I could see these being created would be on the die master before the die was made from it. I'm going to try this weekend to see if I can't get my camera to take some pictures through the microscope occular. Thanks again, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regandon Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 grimm, Look anything like this ? http://www.omnicoin.com/coin_view.aspx?id=911430 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutjim99 Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 It sure sounds like die polishimng to me and not worthy of losing grade,I wonder how experienced they people who grade and autheticate are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimm Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Hi Regandon, It's hard to see in your photo, but the reverse looks a little like that although all the polish marks go in one direction and you can't see them at the scale your photo was taken at. The obverse scratches do not look anything like the reverse ones. Grimm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimm Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Well I tried to get some good pictures off of the microscope, but no luck. I'm going to have to get the camera attachments for it so I can get good images. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I think you are forgetting that the lowest relief (fields, etc) on the coin are actually the highest on the die. They are the areas that get the most polish. It would be very normal for those areas to have die polish marks on a Morgan, and it is seen frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimm Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hi Becky, Exactly! Like I said the obverse scratches mostly occur on the high points of the relief. Also they, unlike polishing scratches, are indented into the coin not raised above the surface. What caused me to pause was that the scratches have a frosty mint like surface not like the smooth surface of nearby bag marks. This suggests to me that they might have been caused when the master was scratched somehow. These scratches were then transfered to the die when it was made from the master. which was then finaly transfered to the coin when it was minted. This is why I was curious to see if this was listed as a VAM. Grimm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Any damage to the die would result in raised lines, not indented. Any incluse or indented lines would have to be post mint damage. By the way, every Morgan and/or Peace dollar has a VAM #. Some are just more desirable than others.. I wish you could post some pics, it would be a great help..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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