Burks Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Out of these three I've been noticing a lot of very nice coins being in ICG holders. Can anyone give me more information on these three? It seems like they "specialize" in world coins. Due to the high prices of US coins I'm starting to get into world coins even more. Any help is great. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 ICCS is a Toronto, Ontario based TPG. They specialize in Canadian coins and tokens, and are generally known for conservative technical grading. For Canadian, I trust ICCS over PCGS or NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 ICCS is a Toronto, Ontario based TPG. They specialize in Canadian coins and tokens, and are generally known for conservative technical grading. For Canadian, I trust ICCS over PCGS or NGC. Thanks! The "modern" Canadian coins are not something that interests me. Now the old ones I know anything in a PCGS or NGC holder is going to more than likely be overpriced. I see coins from the 1800's going pretty darn cheap in other holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 This is how I see it... NGC and PCGS holders are generally accepted to be correct or as close as it gets. Therefore coins in there holders realize a better percentage of their value if you follow my drift. Coins in holders like ICG and SEGS you have to look at the coin first and the holder second to make sure the grade is correct...and sometimes it is not. Now I’m not saying that PCGS and NGC are right %100 of the time but they have a lot better reputation then other companies. My question is why put a coin in a holder where you have to make sure the coin is correct...doesn’t that kind of negate the point of putting a coin in the holder in the first place??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 ICG doesn't speciallize in world coins, but to the best of my knowledge they are only one of the top 4 grading companies that will grade ancients. When it comes to buying coins, I don't care who slabbed it - I'm basing my decision on the coin, not the slab. And thus I will buy a coin in ANY slab if it meets my requirements. But if you are wanting to submit coins for grading - I'd pass on using PCI at all. For older coins, and by that I mean pre 1900, I'd have no qualms about using NGC, PCGS, ICG or ANACS. I believe, but could be wrong, that ICCS grades Canadian coins ONLY. But they do have a good reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 I don't really like the idea of slabbed ancients- it just kind of goes against what collecting is. I find it amusing how a large number of ancient collectors are confused when you say "slab". I'm not sure if ICG really has any good ancient coin guys with them - I've seen some misattributed stuff in their holders. ICCS will grade World coins, but only if you're sending a few. If you decided to send in a US type collection, for example, they would turn it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 But if you are wanting to submit coins for grading - I'd pass on using PCI at all. For older coins, and by that I mean pre 1900, I'd have no qualms about using NGC, PCGS, ICG or ANACS. That's mainly why I was asking. Let's say I pick up a very, very nice world coin that, if graded properly, could raise its value 10x's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 That's mainly why I was asking. Let's say I pick up a very, very nice world coin that, if graded properly, could raise its value 10x's. I can't think of anything that'd fit that description. Most coins don't get much of an added premium slabbed, except for (usually modern) super-high MS grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 I don't really like the idea of slabbed ancients- it just kind of goes against what collecting is. I find it amusing how a large number of ancient collectors are confused when you say "slab". I'm not sure if ICG really has any good ancient coin guys with them - I've seen some misattributed stuff in their holders. Most who have ancients slabbed do so to have the coins authenticated - too many fakes out there. None of the grading companies have graders who can authentic or grade any but a few of the world coins submitted to them - let alone ancients. They send the coins out to recognized experts in whatever particular area to grade and authenticate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Most who have ancients slabbed do so to have the coins authenticated - too many fakes out there. None of the grading companies have graders who can authentic or grade any but a few of the world coins submitted to them - let alone ancients. They send the coins out to recognized experts in whatever particular area to grade and authenticate them. Some the major TPGs actually "farm out" some of their work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Most who have ancients slabbed do so to have the coins authenticated - too many fakes out there. I think there is a lot more fake/altered US stuff than fake ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Some the major TPGs actually "farm out" some of their work? All of them do. But only for world coinage, not all countries mind you but most of them - and ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 I think there is a lot more fake/altered US stuff than fake ancients. I wouldn't bet on that. Sure there are plenty of counterfeit US coins - but if I had to bet on what was counterfeited the most often - it would be ancients. Hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 I wouldn't bet on that. Sure there are plenty of counterfeit US coins - but if I had to bet on what was counterfeited the most often - it would be ancients. Hands down. Replicated maybe. But cointerfeits meant to deceive, I disagree. There's just way more US stuff than ancients out there. Morgan dollars alone are a huge market. A lot of unslabbed US gold is/was fake (if I remember Tom DeLorey's comments correctly). To be sure there are fakes in the ancient world. As a percentage maybe the two are the same but I thin there's more liquidity and money in the US market which leads to more fakes. I guess it depends on if you count all those dollars coming out of China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 OK - I should have said - counterfeits, ( yes there are contemporary counterfeits even for the ancients) fakes, replicas, copies and unauthentic coins. You could take all of the fake US coins there are from China - and everyplace else - combine them together, and they still couldn't even come close to the total number of fake ancient coins that exist in the world. I mean face it - they've had 2,500 years, plus, to produce fake ancient coins and just over 200 to produce fake US coins. No contest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 We'll have to agree to diasagree While ancients have been around longer people didn't really collect them until the last 200 years. With no collectors, no premiums, no need to make counterfeits. There are some exceptions from the Renaissance though it is uncertain if those coins were meant to fool, or simply be fantasies. At any rate I'll wager on more fake US gold than anything else including Byzantine solidi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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