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Identifying a 1725 Sun Rouble


DAJ
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Hi -

 

I have this coin but find it hard to identify it in Bitkin.

 

Photos from Zander are attached that are perfect matches to the coin. But the closest match we find in Bitkin is 1354 and this comes from a top expert.

 

The Bitkin portrait image is what is hard to discern, at least for me. The features of 1354 seem to angular and sharp with the hair too close to the legend. I am not sure the curls of the hair by the face match either.

 

If this is not a match, 1354 is unquestionably the closest match.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Best - Dwight

Zander page 34 -2.JPG

Zander page 34.JPG

1725 Sun Rouble obverse.jpg

1725 Sun Rouble reverse.jpg

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Funny you should mention that. This coin appears to be Severin #666a (S), Davenport #1661, and Diakov #19, 20, or 21. I think it is 21. Hard to tell, but the portrait seems closest. The rouble at the link above looks to be #19.

 

Peculiar the coin at the link above would appear to have the wrong Bitkin?

 

The closest to these in Bitkin is a 1724 #1319 ®.

 

Why wouldn't this 1725 make Bitkin? Thoughts? Thanks very much.

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You referring to Diakov 2000. In 2012 a new catalog on the gold and silver coins of Peter the Great was published.

There are many more different varieties there and an attempt to cover all the die varieties.

I do not think Bitkin had the same goal. There are rumors that Bitkin is working on a new cataog. So we shall see...

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Bitkin's catalog is the most common reference for Auction houses and collectors these days. Diakov is the best for the collectors who have it. Auction houses are not always the best experts at identifying the coins, they give you an idea where to look for it, if it is available at all, and often are wrong id reference is printer in the catalogs and carried forward by others as in the link above... As the owner and collector who cares, you are the best person who can id it correctly, as you have internal intensive. ;)

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Disappointing though. Again, we have this Sun rouble listed at the link at Bitkin 1350, (R-R2). That sounds desireable. But it is only (S) in Severin and not in Bitkin at all. I have looked at some coins with a different light now, in particular with some Sincona auction listings upcoming, and begin to doubt the logic of pricing - there or anywhere. It is very labor intensive to research from the images.

 

Again, thanks.

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It is clearly Bitkin 1351 - 1357. Then, 1351, 1353 and 1355 are out, because the crowns there are not tall. 1356 and 1357 are out because the portrait is different.

 

What is left, is 1352 and 1354. And, it looks like the same coin. :-) Look at "E" in MOHETA. And look at the same spot on your coin ;-) I do not see much difference between the 3 of them...

 

Interesting -- same thing in Diakov/Fenzi: 421 or 422. The only difference is the crown's lower rim design of 422 is: "similar to 421 but larger diamonds on crown rim". This most likely would suggest same dies after some repair. That would explain 1352 and 1354 listings of same dies as diff. varieties in Bitkin. And it is hard to tell due to awful illustration quality.

 

P.S. See what you did Dwight -- you made me go back to coin books again :-) I thought I was done with this...

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BTW, this portrait is quite common for a Sun Rouble. A minute detail that moves it from R to R2 would not make much difference for most collectors - still a common portrait. Lately I like the big Conros catalog. In addition to a classic rarity rating there is also a popularity amongst collectors index. I think it is quite useful.

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