STEVE MOULDING Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 It's puzzling to me why no one has tried it out and reported on their experience Ron I did try it out over many hours and I did report my experience. As you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rnsdb Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 LOL Steve. Nice touch with the frown icon. At least it wasn't a thumb/finger over nose icon. And this from a big proponent of Wiki approaches. I meant besides a beta test rather than the final design. Also, a sample of one is not the universe, and your bias toward a cloud relational database solution, of which there is none, rather than a desktop solution, of which there is one, colors your opinion. Anyway, it's the only SQL relational database game in town. (As far as I know) Your feedback was very helpful in simplifying the interface DCP database control panel and I did incorporate your suggestion to ask for feedback as to usability and whether the interface and design is overly complex for the average, or even the advanced collector Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 ...I am convinced that both sides are exact copies of an existant coin. That is the danger. From a picture you can no longer tell... Have you seen any original KM coins where "sobol" feet don't sit well on top of the fat lower line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 LOL. Nice touch with the frown icon. At least it wasn't a thumb/finger over nose icon. And this from a big proponent of Wiki approaches. I meant besides a beta test rather than the final design. A sample of one is not the universe, and your bias toward a cloud database solution, of which there is none, rather than a desktop solution, of which there is one, colors your opinion. Anyway, it's the only SQL relational database game in town. (As far as I know) Your feedback was very helpful in simplifying the interface DCP database control panel and I did incorporate your suggestion to ask for feedback as to usability and whether the interface and design is overly complex for the average, or even the advanced collector Ron I downloaded the databases, but wasn't able to open them - there is a tool on Linux which actually allows access to the tables, but none of the GUI. Without any doumentation as to what the structure is, what primary/foreign keys are in place, what certain code values mean, etc. etc., it was totally unusable for me, so I gave up pretty quickly. IMHO it is just too much of a challenge to expect ordinary users without any IT background at all to use the database "as is". More than likely, they either don't have MS-Access installed (and don't want to install it just in order to test the databases), or their version is somehow incompatible with the platform on which your application was developed. Don't be too hard on your potential users here. Just my 2 kopecks worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rnsdb Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I downloaded the databases, but wasn't able to open them...... Interesting. You don't need to have Access 2007 or later installed. But if you don't, you do need to download and install the free Microsoft run time code from the link in the readme documentation before trying to open coins.accdr. Otherwise it won't open. And you do need to be running Windows XP, Vista, 7 or 8. I'm not sure if Linux will work, even with the free download. Did you install it before trying to open coins.accdr? This is one argument in support of Steve Moulding's cloud approach, but we have to make do with what we have, not what we'd like Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Dear Ron, what you are trying to do is admirable and would be useful for others. But I am hardly that much of an expert on Siberian coins, and I doubt I can be just as passionate as you are in building the database. I wish you luck and all in that difficult endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted April 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Have you seen any original KM coins where "sobol" feet don't sit well on top of the fat lower line? Oops Eugene! That I had not checked. It's a challenge. Give me time, I'll check the pictures I can find. Very interesting point! Best, Sigi - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted April 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Ex, I agree with you 100% but your post only goes to make my case. I offer the following 1. As an expert in Siberian coins, were you to enter your knowledge of the 228 Siberian Brekke coins into the database, your expertise would become the expertise of the 200,000+ Russian collectors. Your knowledge of which of those 228 have been reported forged, your images of the original and forgery, your text description/analysis, and your rating of DOD (degree of danger/difficulty in identifying eg 8.5) would be of immense help to other collectors. Put something like this into the database for your Siberian coins 1796cipher4k A DOD of 5.0 would be pretty easily detected while a 9.5 would be virtually undetectable. I issue you a challenge. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to pick out your favorite Brekke Siberian forgery, preferably with multiple forgeries, and send me your best images of original and forgery obv/rev/edge. Write up your text assessment, include any important links you have on the coin, and give your DOD rating 1-10. I'll enter your input into the database, and post screen shots of what the database puts out for your coin Ron Ron, I am sorry - I am not an expert , maybe an experienced collector. I do not care about all the 228 Siberian coins but only about the large 10 kopeks of which there are 15 dates with some major variants. I do not have an archive of counterfeits. When I see a nice Siberian 10 kopek I compare it with what I have. Doubtful coins I try to hold in hand first or have them sent on approval. I compare with Michailovitch, Yusupov, Brekke collection, Aalborg collection, MiM, m-dv.ru, etc. So far, I think I could steer clear of fakes. But what is there still to come.... Respectfully, Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Ron, I have no idea what you said in post 15. Where did I say that a slab is a guarantee of coin most likely being an original? Experts NGC uses cannot tell fake from real nowadays. I am not even talking about problem series like Yefimoks. I am talking about 19th century copper coins. I will say something else, and will shut up... Copper fakes (good ones) today are made by molding an original coin and that mold becomes a "die" capable of producing 10 - 15 fakes. Then they take an original in bad shape and "strike" a coin over it. The only way to tell these is to find twins. cannot tell it from looking at photos and comparison to an original coin. This is why I am out of overstrikes altogether. Anyone wondered where all those 1796 em PP came from lately? Used to be a fairly rare coin... I have seen very nice edging jobs on 18th century fake silver rubles. I saw a common 5 kop of Catherine that was fake, and I would not be able to tell that it is a fake had it not been struck over a fake coin. Steve will confirm. These are scary times, and I would do away with any RNS fakes for a purpose of a fake database. Anyone buying those as originals today with all the books and info available, as well as, different free databases -- is plain lazy, and it should serve him right. As for me: 1. I do not buy overstrikes. 2. I am sticking to pedigree and known sources to buy more expensive coins. 3. I try not to worry too much about what I bought recently. Scary times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I would agree with BKB and add that each experience and advanced collector is able to figure out with all tools an literature available what is it; this data base would had been useful twenty years ago, when there was no internet and so many modern catalogs complied as of these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think it may be useful to the reasonably new and inexperienced collectors as a starting point in understanding the problem and as first ref. point. Ron, can you PM me on how to download the database to trial. I may be able to add a little bit, but I need to understand it a little bit more first. The only thing, I have Access 2002. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 It looks like I got out of this area just in time. I would like to encourage the creation of an easily accessible resource of some type though (not particular about what it is)--preferably something that can be called up on a mobile device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I would like to encourage the creation of an easily accessible resource of some type though (not particular about what it is)--preferably something that can be called up on a mobile device. This is, of course, easily done (though care has to be taken in the design). My new rnumis website - and other numismatic data resources I've built and use heavily but haven't made public - was built with a mysql database underneath and displays beautifully on my smartphone. It's even better on an ipad I have other 'non-public' webpages for reading-from and writing-to the databases when I'm on a train or in bed. It all works wonderfully. Nothing to download. Nothing to install. Nothing to fight. It just works. There again...I'm told my opinion has been colored by my bias for these kinds of solutions. I guess I can live with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I agree with Steve. The only reason I haven't tried it is because it seams too IT technical and not very user-friendly. May be Stive could help in setting up something like this, that we will be able to edit on the go, adding info to it (just like with Wiki)? When it is Internet based it can be used anywhere, any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I did discuss something along these lines with Ron about 6 months ago, but it was felt that it would be too much work and time to port his existing framework (of which I've only scratched the surface and into which he's put a huge amount of time and effort) over to something more web-based / user friendly. Personally, I don't think his framework is going to fly *at all* (though I think others should make their own minds up) and I think ultimately the investment of time to port it would be worth it *if* there was demand, but I don't really hear that either from the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 ...I have other 'non-public' webpages for reading-from and writing-to the databases when I'm on a train or in bed. It all works wonderfully. ...Nothing to download. Nothing to install. Nothing to fight. It just works. Steve, is there any chance you may be able to demonstrate this to us? This sounds wonderful, but as they say - a picture worth thousand words... Or at least can you point me in a direction of where I could read about how to build and use internet based data base like you mention? I am interested opening a web-site of my own, and it would be great if I could understand the workings of better web design with mysql incorporation. Thank you. Sigi, sorry, we have used your topic for this discussion, but it is reasonably important, hope you don't mind much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Steve, is there any chance you may be able to demonstrate this to us? This sounds wonderful, but as they say - a picture worth thousand words... Or at least can you point me in a direction of where I could read about how to build and use internet based data base like you mention? I am interested opening a web-site of my own, and it would be great if I could understand the workings of better web design with mysql incorporation. Thank you. Sigi, sorry, we have used your topic for this discussion, but it is reasonably important, hope you don't mind much... I find this site to have a wealth of information as well as great tutorials, and it's very easy to navigate: http://www.w3schools.com/ You'll need to use some kind of server-side scripting language such as PHP or ASP -- there are probably other languages, but these are usually already installed in most hosting environments (ASP on Windows servers, and usually the database there is SQL Server and not necessarily MySQL, although PHP and MySQL also both run on Windows). If you have a Unix/Linux based host, MySQL and PHP are usually the way to go. Basically, it works like this: the client's browser requests a web page which typically has an ending of .php, although not necessarily so. The server interprets the PHP code, connects to the database, runs the queries, and fetches the data which is returned to the client as HTML text. Many times you will use (X)HTML forms to gather user input which can be used to query or update the data. There are lots of tutorials out there. If you keep it simple, it can be very easy. For implementing the GUI design, you'll most likely use CSS ("cascading style sheets") and probably some JavaScript. You can get away without these for a basic "plain vanilla" design, but most users expect to see things styled with CSS these days. But if your website will be available to the public, be extremely careful about taking steps to prevent hacking, especially guarding against what is called "SQL injection". It might be easier to create a site with some of the many open source website-building frameworks out there (Joomla, Wordpress, Wix, etc.) unless you are doing something special and need to build everything from scratch. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Overwhelmed... I've built my web pages in Dreamweaver previously. It looks like I am in for some serious reading ... Thank you for your detailed answer. Once I get around it, I may ask you a few more questions if you don't mind me PM you. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I've built my web pages in Dreamweaver previously. I think you can use Dreamweaver to build the site and add PHP code directly in Dreamweaver. Doing a quick Google for the words "dreamweaver" and "php" brings up lots of hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 ...be extremely careful about taking steps to prevent hacking, especially guarding against what is called "SQL injection". Thanks Bob...I've been putting off the migration to PDO for a while...time to just do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Thanks Bob...I've been putting off the migration to PDO for a while...time to just do it I would stick with MySQLi. PDO has some problems of its own about SQL injection because it emulates prepared statements -- might want to look at this link first: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5741187/sql-injection-that-gets-around-mysql-real-escape-string Now back to coins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 That's OK Bob; I did the port to PDO a week ago (went very smoothly) and had already turned off the default emulation behavior so no worries there. It's working fine. Apologies for for boring everybody and I promise I'll say nothing more about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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