bobh Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I bought these from a recent Künker auction. Hard to find the first type with such good detail, although it has a few green spots: Someone wrote the digit "4" in black ink next to the crown. I wonder why? It is not a particularly scarce date, although perhaps more so than 1794-AM or 1795-AM: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Nice coins. I like the edge patterns. I know there are diehard US Large Cent collectors who work to remove the vertigris when it appears in order to prevent its growth. Do collectors of Russian coins do the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Nice coins. I like the edge patterns. I know there are diehard US Large Cent collectors who work to remove the vertigris when it appears in order to prevent its growth. Do collectors of Russian coins do the same thing? Yes. It's just about the only reason I know of to try to clean a coin at all. Unfortunately, after the verdigris is gone, so is the patina in some cases, and there is also often some pitting beneath the green spots. Don't know which is worse, the pitting or the verdigris. Maybe a little soak in olive oil would do this one some good. The green spots are still small enough that it might work out OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Try this: a little treatment with simple solvent (like gasoline). Just wet your fingers and clean the surface to remove dust and oil. Than clean with water and again use liquid for copper coins but also not very strong. With fingers wet in it try to clean green places. Be gentle and use diluted version of this liquid (Leuchturm products are very good). Wash coin with water and again a little solvent .. when you see diiference stop.. It is good way and make no harm to the patina.. When coin will dry use drop of simple liquid parafine (ladies are using it for nails) - but do not soak coin in it..Just drop (again lol) on your fingers and treat the surface. Simple way of conservation ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very nice coins ! The 1796AM deserves very close inspection - there are well done re-overstrikes. There is something intriguing to the right of the right wing and a weak area at the lower half of the left branch. Peter: the 1760 is it before or after cleaning? Sigi - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very nice coins ! The 1796AM deserves very close inspection - there are well done re-overstrikes. There is something intriguing to the right of the right wing and a weak area at the lower half of the left branch. Peter: the 1760 is it before or after cleaning? Sigi Thanks, Sigi! The first thing I shall do is to measure and weigh the 1796-AM carefully. I also thought of the possibility of an overstrike, but up to now have not seen any evidence of it. The edge looks very normal, no trace of edge 6 underneath. But, if you say so ... As to the 1760, I haven't done anything to clean it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Someone wrote the digit "4" in black ink next to the crown. I wonder why? It is not a particularly scarce date, although perhaps more so than 1794-AM or 1795-AM: Some old school collectors wrote inventory numbers or something like that on their coins. Of course when you hear about that you just want to hop in a time machine and throttle them, not just because they put ink on the coin, but because they often used India ink and a fountain pen with a sharp metal nib, they scratched the coin in doing so. (Underlining, bolding and italicizing should at least begin to suggest my opinions about this sort of handling.) It's not like they had felt tipped Sharpie markers back then! I have (still have) a rather worn and ugly-toned ruble like that; someone removed the ink but the scratches are visible. Jim Elmen (World Wide Coins) saw that coin when I brought it to a class he was teaching in 1998, and immediately identified it as one he had previously handled, because of the scratches. I hadn't noticed them, because the coin itself was such an ugly ducking for other reasons. (Based on the way he told me he recognized the coin, I don't think he recognized the coin itself, but rather keyed in on the scratches being in a distinctive location--but I could be wrong about this.) Apparently it used to belong to a collector named Södermann who himself has a rather mixed reputation. Anyhow I hung onto the coin because I didn't believe it would sell for much even being a Warsaw Mint piece, and it was the first ruble I had ever owned, and (IIRC) only the fourth Russian Imperial coin I had ever bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Some old school collectors wrote inventory numbers or something like that on their coins. Of course when you hear about that you just want to hop in a time machine and throttle them, not just because they put ink on the coin, but because they often used India ink and a fountain pen with a sharp metal nib, they scratched the coin in doing so. (Underlining, bolding and italicizing should at least begin to suggest my opinions about this sort of handling.) It's not like they had felt tipped Sharpie markers back then! I have (still have) a rather worn and ugly-toned ruble like that; someone removed the ink but the scratches are visible. Jim Elmen (World Wide Coins) saw that coin when I brought it to a class he was teaching in 1998, and immediately identified it as one he had previously handled, because of the scratches. I hadn't noticed them, because the coin itself was such an ugly ducking for other reasons. (Based on the way he told me he recognized the coin, I don't think he recognized the coin itself, but rather keyed in on the scratches being in a distinctive location--but I could be wrong about this.) Apparently it used to belong to a collector named Södermann who himself has a rather mixed reputation. Anyhow I hung onto the coin because I didn't believe it would sell for much even being a Warsaw Mint piece, and it was the first ruble I had ever owned, and (IIRC) only the fourth Russian Imperial coin I had ever bought. Thanks for your feedback, Steve! I remember seeing an 1898 50 kopeck piece listed in the Irving Goodman Sale which had "./." inked (or scratched?) into the field at the bottom right on the obverse. Considering that there are not very many genuine 1898 50k coins in existence, that inked-in rarity mark might just be a valuable mark of pedigree! PS - It was lot 1546, and the mark was actually on Nicholas II's neck, not in the field. PPS - And it sold for a grand total of only $825! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have that catalog! Somewhere. I am trying to remember which piece from about that time was supposedly unique; I think it was the 25 kopek from the same year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Back to Elizabeth 5k pieces. When I was putting together a set by year of MM and no mm pieces (when it was still possible), I did not find any in high grade. Eventually I cooled off to that series and now I have only two pieces - one from 1762 and one 1761MM (ugly), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I was never happy with my Elizabeth piece either... and it was meant to be a type coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 "4" might be a price of 4 rubles marked by old collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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