coin_collector Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hello fellow coin collectors. New to the forum, but have been lurking for a while for info. I started collecting various coinage from different Russian eras not really having a strategy to collect a specific set. Recently I focused on Nicholas II and the 5 rouble coins. Being a newbie in the area of coin collecting I still have a ton to learn. My question is in reference to edge marking on the gold coinage of Nicholas II. I've noticed that many coins have uneven "wear" on the edges markings. So the pattern: <> <> <> <> <> <> would seem to be deeper on one side of the coin and almost invisible on the other. Is this related to the engraving process? I am not very knowledgeable in the area of coin making yet, so if someone could enlighten me to the process of edge engraving during that era I would really appreciate it. Thanks, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hello fellow coin collectors. New to the forum, but have been lurking for a while for info. I started collecting various coinage from different Russian eras not really having a strategy to collect a specific set. Recently I focused on Nicholas II and the 5 rouble coins. Being a newbie in the area of coin collecting I still have a ton to learn. My question is in reference to edge marking on the gold coinage of Nicholas II. I've noticed that many coins have uneven "wear" on the edges markings. So the pattern: <> <> <> <> <> <> would seem to be deeper on one side of the coin and almost invisible on the other. Is this related to the engraving process? I am not very knowledgeable in the area of coin making yet, so if someone could enlighten me to the process of edge engraving during that era I would really appreciate it. Thanks, A Well, the pattern looks more like a series of "L"s and inverted "L"s to me ... but not easily reproduced with ASCII art! Edge engraving of Russian coins is somewhat of a book with seven seals, mostly because edging devices used in the various periods of time are pretty scarce, if they still exist at all. Original (??) dies do turn up from time to time at auctions, but I have never seen an original edging device offered for sale. Also, Russian Imperial Mint documents were destroyed in large numbers either by fire or during the anarchy of WWI and the ensuing revolution. Perhaps our "resident expert", RW Julian, can expand on this? Since I also collect this series, I can say that I have seen numerous edges on these coins such as you describe ... but I think that in most cases, this is due to uneven striking pressure, not wear. One side will be clearly struck, the other faintly so. If these were struck in a collar, one would think that the striking pressure would be distributed to both sides evenly. Perhaps the collar was in two parts, and the pressure was not applied evenly all the way around the diameter. Since these coins are fairly small (and easily bent), I think they probably operated with the minimum possible striking force in order not to distort the planchet. Look at ten rouble coins and you will see what I mean ... most of these are struck much clearer around the edge than the 5 rouble coins. Good luck! I also started out with this series about 4 years ago and managed to acquire a run from 1897 - 1904 with all mintmasters complete (got lucky with 1901-AR, but it's only VF grade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coin_collector Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Well, the pattern looks more like a series of "L"s and inverted "L"s to me ... but not easily reproduced with ASCII art! Edge engraving of Russian coins is somewhat of a book with seven seals, mostly because edging devices used in the various periods of time are pretty scarce, if they still exist at all. Original (??) dies do turn up from time to time at auctions, but I have never seen an original edging device offered for sale. Also, Russian Imperial Mint documents were destroyed in large numbers either by fire or during the anarchy of WWI and the ensuing revolution. Perhaps our "resident expert", RW Julian, can expand on this? Since I also collect this series, I can say that I have seen numerous edges on these coins such as you describe ... but I think that in most cases, this is due to uneven striking pressure, not wear. One side will be clearly struck, the other faintly so. If these were struck in a collar, one would think that the striking pressure would be distributed to both sides evenly. Perhaps the collar was in two parts, and the pressure was not applied evenly all the way around the diameter. Since these coins are fairly small (and easily bent), I think they probably operated with the minimum possible striking force in order not to distort the planchet. Look at ten rouble coins and you will see what I mean ... most of these are struck much clearer around the edge than the 5 rouble coins. Good luck! I also started out with this series about 4 years ago and managed to acquire a run from 1897 - 1904 with all mintmasters complete (got lucky with 1901-AR, but it's only VF grade). Thank you for confirming. It seemed very strange that the side of the coin would receive such uneven wear. The edging process seemed more of a suspect. Most of the 5 rouble coins I've inspected seem to display similar edging - even with minimal or no signs of wear on the obverse or reverse. The MS specimen I have is slabbed, so I cannot inspect the edge, but would suspect that it also has uneven engraving. You are absolutely correct regarding larger coins of this era. 10 rubles with VF-XF wear has very distinct edge markings "all around" the edge. Once again confirming my suspicions. I have plenty of holes to fill in my collection. Rare specimens are, well just that, rare! Both in their availability and reasonable prices. Though with Russian economy (well.. global economy really) in the toilet, prices seem to be dipping somewhat. Recent ebay auctions seem to suggest a downward trend for common 5 rouble coins. Maybe rare specimens will follow suit - but likely they will just disappear of the market till prices go up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree that there is a small (10-20%) decline in prices for ungraded 5 rouble coins. But that does not apply (at least not yet) to graded coins even of the common years such as 1902-1904 that even went upward, apparently because there are less offerings. Let's see what the future holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Guys, I think we are missing something very important - I believe the 5 ruble coin is just too small. I used to own a 1900 5 ruble coin but sold it right away - didn't like how small they were. Somewhere along the lines, I believe it's just difficult to do a proper edging versus the production rate although this is my guess. Similar problems also exist with the edging of the smaller silver coinages such as the 5 and 10 kopek coins from 1820s. (maybe it would be good for everyone to check theirs out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I believe the 5 ruble coin is just too small. Here is a saying in Russia: "Мал золотник, да дорог". Sell me 5 Rouble 1906. Sell me 5 Rouble 1907. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Here is a saying in Russia: "Мал золотник, да дорог". Sell me 5 Rouble 1906. Sell me 5 Rouble 1907. Weren't the 1907 5R coins (all but one or two) buried under the foundation of a newly-built church? Or was it 10R? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Here is a saying in Russia: "Мал золотник, да дорог". This applies even to 1909 that is absurdly expensive for such a common coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 This applies even to 1909 that is absurdly expensive for such a common coin. Well, you can sell me one for 300$ if you want to. If it is "absurdly expensive". I'll BUY:) MS-65. It's a common coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Weren't the 1907 5R coins (all but one or two) buried under the foundation of a newly-built church? Or was it 10R? 5 Roubles it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.