bobh Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 This seller usually has genuine articles for sale and a good track record. I have bought from them several times in the past. However, I'm not sure about this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=320222271943 I don't normally collect this series, but since it looks higher grade to me, I looked a little closer at it. The reverse (assuming it should be the "reverse of 1797") seems to show some anomalies: [a] The shapes of the two ribbon loops at the bottom of the wreath don't look right; The berries on the right seem too large and not in the right places; [c] The last "A" in "AMERICA" seems to be too far away from the stem at the bottom of the wreath; [d] The denticles seem to be too small, e.g. there are about eight of them under the "1/100" in the auction picture, but my references show only about 5. Other reverses do show the higher number of smaller denticles, however. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 After looking some more at Breen's pictures, I realize that there are just too many varieties ... some with wide denticles, some with small ... some with bigger berries, some smaller. What is the best reference for coins of this type? I have Newcomb, but it only goes back to 1816. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syzygy Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 ... What do you think? I wonder why the owner wouldn't have that coin professionally graded and entombed? Seems like it would be a cinch to recover your grading fee on that one - no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I wonder why the owner wouldn't have that coin professionally graded and entombed? Seems like it would be a cinch to recover your grading fee on that one - no? European sellers do not, as a rule, engage the services of TPG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syzygy Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 European sellers do not, as a rule, engage the services of TPG's. Would not European sellers, as a rule, engage in practices that would lead to higher prices for their wares? Particularly since, in this case, the ware is a US coin and, as usual, in the most demand by US buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRnholio Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Would not European sellers, as a rule, engage in practices that would lead to higher prices for their wares? Particularly since, in this case, the ware is a US coin and, as usual, in the most demand by US buyers. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't change their policy just for a few US coins. I can't count the number of US based Ebay sellers auctioning Canadian coins (even higher value ones) who refused to ship to Canada... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Would not European sellers, as a rule, engage in practices that would lead to higher prices for their wares? Particularly since, in this case, the ware is a US coin and, as usual, in the most demand by US buyers. I talked to a local dealer here in Switzerland once about this. He mentioned that he had had a slabbed Morgan dollar (MS-something grade) which languished for months in his shop, so he cracked it out and offered it raw. The coin sold within a week! Another dealer in Zurich mentioned that although he liked the principle of the slabs, they were too big and most collectors didn't want to deal with the extra plastic. But perhaps the single biggest obstacle to slabbing coins is that there are no European grading companies. The cost of sending stuff to the USA and back, dealing with customs both ways, and the ever-present danger of losing a nice coin in the mail, is not going to make it worthwhile to slab anything but the higher end material. I noticed that many Russian coins are offered in slabs at some major European auctions. Russian collectors seem to have caught on to the slabbing (and crackout) game; but I don't think many English, German, French or Italian collectors or dealers, for example, buy or sell slabbed coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpnyc Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 The coin does not "look" right to me. It looks cast and artificially "worn" and darkened. Add to this the payment terms the seller is looking for (no cc, no paypal) and there is way too much risk associated with this auction. There are enough of these coins available on the market that taking a risk like this is unnecessary. If you want uncertified, guaranteed genuine copper at reasonable prices, check out www.butternut.org. This is Ellsworth's site. He is a legend in the early US copper field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 If you want uncertified, guaranteed genuine copper at reasonable prices, check out www.butternut.org. This is Ellsworth's site. He is a legend in the early US copper field. Thanks for the feedback, and for this excellent link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 But perhaps the single biggest obstacle to slabbing coins is that there are no European grading companies. Their is CGS in the UK: http://www.cgs-uk.biz/home As far as I can tell they only grade British and possibly Irish coins though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just carl Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I don't normally collect this series, but since it looks higher grade to me, I looked a little closer at it. The reverse (assuming it should be the "reverse of 1797") seems to show some anomalies: What do you think? Your statement that you normally don't collect this series make me want to say PASS. If you don't collect someting, you are probably not interested in that type of item so why even look at it now? If you saw a Ferrari on the street and really liked it would you run out and buy one? And not for driving, but to collect. If you plan on starting a collection of those, that may be different, but you don't sound like that. Again, regardless of how it looks, I suggest you take a pass on that item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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