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ID help? Spanish Netherlands copper


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This was (mis)identified by a long-ago seller as being a 16 maravedis from Zeeland. I'm thinking it's from Brabant, with the angel head mintmark of Brussels.

 

Diameter's about 31mm. It's skinny.

 

My best guess is liard or half liard, but that's only by process of elimination - I can't find any pics that match. Nor can I find a coin with the legend "Pondus et pondus, mensura et mensura."

 

Help, anyone?

 

Marianne

 

 

1655rev.jpg1655obv.jpg

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"Pondus et pondus, mensura et mensura."

 

means

 

Diverse weights and diverse measures

 

I have never seen a coin with this on it.

 

PHIL.IIII.D.G.HISP.ET.INDIAR.REX

 

I think that is a coin of Philip IV of Spain...I think you are right about brabant Belgium...not sure if its a laird or half laird...

 

sorry I cant be of more help :ninja:

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"Pondus et pondus, mensura et mensura."

 

means

 

Diverse weights and diverse measures

 

I have never seen a coin with this on it.

 

PHIL.IIII.D.G.HISP.ET.INDIAR.REX

 

I think that is a coin of Philip IV of Spain...I think you are right about brabant Belgium...not sure if its a laird or half laird...

 

sorry I cant be of more help :ninja:

 

 

Thanks, Drusus. I've been looking online and in Krause for basic information about liards/oorden from that time period and general area, but can't find approximate sizes for these coins. It's weird. Diverse weights and diverse measures might be part of the problem. ;)

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This was (mis)identified by a long-ago seller as being a 16 maravedis from Zeeland. I'm thinking it's from Brabant, with the angel head mintmark of Brussels.

 

Diameter's about 31mm. It's skinny.

 

My best guess is liard or half liard, but that's only by process of elimination - I can't find any pics that match. Nor can I find a coin with the legend "Pondus et pondus, mensura et mensura."

 

Help, anyone?

 

Marianne

1655rev.jpg1655obv.jpg

 

It is actually a jeton ( in this case a counting token) minted at Brussels in 1655 for the use of the `Bureau des Finances'. You will find it listed as 2675 in Michael Mitchiner's `Jetons, Medalets & Tokens volume Two - The Low Countries and France' (1991 isbn 0-904173-20-8).

 

The reverse (quote) `Burgundian steel with a flint below and sparks around; superimposed on St. Andrews cross; full face (Brussel's).'

 

Other references: Feuardent 13964, and Dugniolle 4076.

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It is actually a jeton ( in this case a counting token) minted at Brussels in 1655 for the use of the `Bureau des Finances'. You will find it listed as 2675 in Michael Mitchiner's `Jetons, Medalets & Tokens volume Two - The Low Countries and France' (1991 isbn 0-904173-20-8).

 

The reverse (quote) `Burgundian steel with a flint below and sparks around; superimposed on St. Andrews cross; full face (Brussel's).'

 

Other references: Feuardent 13964, and Dugniolle 4076.

 

 

Mystery solved. Thanks, Ian. The book you mention is one that I have on my ever-increasing "to buy" list.

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Mystery solved. Thanks, Ian. The book you mention is one that I have on my ever-increasing "to buy" list.

 

I should have mentioned that Mitchiner misdescribes it as a St Andrew's cross when in fact it is the Burgundian cross. Same general shape, but that's as far as it goes. The Burgundian cross is far more ornate than the plain jane St A cross.

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