Jump to content
CoinPeople.com
Sign in to follow this  
sigistenz

Ain't she sweeet... 5Kop1757

Recommended Posts

hNGBYo.jpg

This beauty will be auctioned by Künker in Berlin - see sixbid.

Though looking like a business strike, it is a very early novodel, from only few years later than dated.

Too bad I cannot afford it....

Sigi :sorry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks nice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you find a matching eagle type on the "later" years coins? Nice novode!

I did find this eagle only on various novodels dated 1757.

Sigi :read:

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I had to update (edit) my original post, as I had to correct what I said before, after digging in a little deeper.

 

hNGBYo.jpg

 

The eagle doesn't look like a novodel element (unlike the rest of the coin). It looks very similar, and probably was used from, SPB rouble eagle master-die, and resembles closely this one:

p_494bacf05927d.jpgp_494bad0c5e563.jpg

 


However, the above rouble is also a novodel.

Please correct me if I am wrong. It looks like it was made based on 1775-1776 roubles:

 

1_548adeb1b0649.jpg

 

But it was not made exclusively for novodel coins. It was already made, and used on established dies in 1788 for copper 5 kopecks overstrike on SPB (SPM) mint:

 

1_54896b04954dc.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This eagle is used on different years dated novodels, up to 1781 I think:

 

1_540951de0c96f.jpg2_540951de0caab.jpg

 

The reason we couldn't find it easily on real coins at a glance is that 1788 SPM 5 kopecks usually don't have a clear. full picture of the eagle, they all incomplete due to overstriking issues.

 

p_4989706bee6c6.jpg

 

1_4b9f9c66b450c.jpg2_4b9f9c66c4f0e.jpg

1_50c746753411d.jpg2_50c74675348e8.jpg

 

So, I think, this is one of those cases when we can say thank you to novodel for being able to see the full picture of the SPM 1788 eagle. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also this coin in Historical Musium:

 

  • post-27255-0-83895600-1421539635_thumb.j

 

With a story attached to it, saying that this fantasy novodel was made in 1963, dated 1757 with EII monogram and presented to Ekaterina II. The story is a complete fantasy itself, of cause. It's a "novodel" fantasy made after 1788, with the eagle die that was used for 1757 novodel that Sigi showed, that later had letters CPM (SPM) added for making other novodels with later dates of EII reign. That's how it seams to me, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed Eugene, I had never compared the eagles to this point.. From 1763 on С.ПМ used different eagles for the pyataky and only in 1788 they took out the nice 1757 novodel dies for the pyataky again. Or maybe was the 1757 novodel die used for pyataky all the time at С.ПМ along with other dies? I must look into my archives.

Great information again, thank you! :art:

Sigi

 

.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like the whole MM, SPM 1788-1789 series used this eagle. MM also used it in 1795.

 

1_4a800d7e5ccd2.jpg2_4a800d7e5d4a5.jpg

 

AM and TM in 1787-1789 used a similar, but somewhat different eagles...

 

I thought that looked familiar! This coin is in my collection... From Markov, some years ago.

 

Nice coin to have in the collection!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A basic question, but how does one know when a novodel such as this was minted? Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only by finding out that and when this eagle was made available for general issues (and if it ever was). In this case it was. Surely it was made not exclusively for novodels. They used already made elements as much as they could to make the production of novodel easy and cheap. I guess that by comparing the eagle side to SPM 1788 general issues, it's easy to see that they are identical... No direct information is available, but this informative guess...

 

SPM 1788 compare to novodel 1781 and 1757.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sigi, you may find this topic interesting, and so may many others who are into collecting 5 kopecks of EII. It's in Russian, but even without doing much reading you may see the pictures. The toughest 10 (and now 20) pyataks of EII to collect: http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=165273&page=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Eugene, some very interesting pictures of rare coins :drool: .

Sigi

 

.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×