Forum joint effort: Edge varieties catalog

[bobh]

I just had a neat idea ... many Russian coins have important edge varieties which aren't documented very well. If anyone has seen the new catalog by V.V. Kazakov about coins of the period of Nikolai II, there is a beautiful pull-out page right behind the front cover with all the edge varieties of these coins. For example, I hadn't seen the varieties "with or without dot" between the mintmaster initials before.

 

Unfortunately, it is so difficult to obtain samples of genuine coins of this period, or of earlier coins, that any one collector or researcher studying these edge varieties by himself (or herself) is almost doomed to failure. How many collectors of Russian gold coins can afford to build complete sets according to date and variety?? Might as well plan a vacation trip to the moon! But together, we can perhaps do significant research by sharing pictures of the edges of our coins.

 

Here's a start: six images of four stacked coins, all gold 10 rouble coins, from top to bottom by year and mintmaster:

1911-ЭБ

1904-АР

1901-АР

1900-ФЗ

Each image shows a different aspect of the edge lettering as the view rotates around the entire diameter of the coins:

 

 

As you can see, there are important differences in the letter spacing, and sometimes in the shape of the lettering. I have some more of these which I haven't photographed yet -- 1902, 1903 and (hopefully soon) all three varieties of 1899 (hopefully genuine!)

 

The coins pictured above are not slabbed, but all are presumably genuine, as they weigh in at 8.6 grams and otherwise have no features which might distinguish them as fakes. But one can never be sure! At least they are not in a slab so we can actually see the edges of the coins.

 

Looking forward to seeing more pictures of the "third side" of your coins (silver as well!)

[bobh]

Please note that although I started out trying to align the dot between the MM initials, by the 4th image I realigned the coins on the "1" in order to preserve the relative spacing. Otherwise, it would have gotten out of synch too badly.

[grivna1726]

Looking forward to seeing more pictures of the "third side" of your coins (silver as well!)

 

Here's an Ioann III ruble (Uz-0758) that was struck from one of approximately 6,000 pre-edged blanks with Anna's ornamented ("floreated") design that were laying around the mint at the time of her death in 1740. Permission was sought and granted to use these as they were, rather than re-edging (or melting?) with the lettered edge normally seen on Ioann Antonovich's silver rubles.

 

An unknown number of these coins were overstruck by Elizabeth Petrovna as evidenced by Uz-0779, a 1743 ruble with that same floreated edge of Anna's, as part of a determined campaign to remove all traces of Ioann's image and existence from public view.

[gxseries]

Wow grivna, is that your Ionna III ruble?

[grivna1726]

Wow grivna, is that your Ionna III ruble?

 

Yes, it is. The Ioann III ruble with Anna's edge is rare. Very few of those approximately 6000 minted are known to have survived.

 

GM owned 2 different varieties of this coin which were GM-17 & GM-18 (plate II, coins 1 & 2 respectively). Mine is GM-18.

 

It is notable that the massive Klingert collection sold in 1910 did not include an example of this Ioann III ruble variety. However, the 1932 Adolph Hess sale ("Dubletten Russischer Museen") did. That was lot 960 which was not illustrated in the plates and identified only by Ilyin number ("Ilj. 6.") and graded "S.g.e" or VG (which is probably VF by today's standard).

[grivna1726]

Here's my original 400 dpi scan showing the edge. Getting a clear scan of the edge is more difficult than doing the obverse and reverse, so I hope this is clear enough to see without difficulty.

[bobh]

Awesome coin, Grivna -- thanks for showing it to us!

 

As to edge photography, I have found that you can use a clothes pin to support the coin on its edge which makes it a lot easier to focus the camera (of course, be careful not to pull the pin across the coin because it can scratch!)

 

Another way, which can be seen in the edge comparisons above, is to photograph the coin from the side while it is lying horizontally on a pad of Post-It's.

[grivna1726]

Awesome coin, Grivna -- thanks for showing it to us!

 

As to edge photography, I have found that you can use a clothes pin to support the coin on its edge which makes it a lot easier to focus the camera (of course, be careful not to pull the pin across the coin because it can scratch!)

 

Another way, which can be seen in the edge comparisons above, is to photograph the coin from the side while it is lying horizontally on a pad of Post-It's.

 

These were done on my scanner. I have a digital camera but have not been pleased with the results I have gotten from it taking pictures of coins (which is probably at least partly due to my very limited photography skills).

 

I will try your suggestion of the Post-It notes method later next week and post the result here if it is clearer than the scan. Certainly your pictures of the gold coins are very sharp and clear. I don't know what kind of a camera you have, but I think it must be much better than mine.

[bobh]

These were done on my scanner.  I have a digital camera but have not been pleased with the results I have gotten from it taking pictures of coins (which is probably at least partly due to my very limited photography skills).

 

I will try your suggestion of the Post-It notes method later next week and post the result here if it is clearer than the scan.  Certainly your pictures of the gold coins are very sharp and clear.  I don't know what kind of a camera you have, but I think it must be much better than mine.

I used a Nikon CoolPix 5900 in macro mode on a stand for these. Lighting was a halogen 30W spot, white balance adjusted manually with the back side of a Kodak 18% gray card.

[gxseries]

I honestly have been very frustrated over the use of either digital camera or scanner.

 

With digital camera, it should be doable, that is if you have a proper stand, and if you know how to play around with photoshop, you should be able to piece them up in one picture.

 

There was a post in the forum somewhere that mentions using a scanner and let the coin "roll" together with the sensor in a linear track (let's say the coin was rolling in between two blocks of wood). While that might works, it is actually quite difficult, especially for coin edges that has extrusive edge texting, i.e. not smooth surfaces to roll coin around properly.

 

Saying that, that of course is if you don't mind making of scratches on the older Russian coins you got, but of which, I am NOT recommanding and I would not bother trying any longer.

 

What I thought of is to use the video feature on a digital camera and let a coin sit on a circular disc. The key point is to set the coin rotating, so that the camera can record it, and we can play it back as a video format. However, another sad issue is that we need circular discs that are roughly the same as the coin diameter, and we need to change them accordingly to the coin sizes. Another issue is the rotation issue, but that I believe is doable if I can get to a DIY store and get some low motor to deal with it.

 

But, after saying such a grand scheme, I think I will shut up and take more photos of my Russian coin edges this weekend when I have time.

 

How I wished something like this is applied to coins: http://panoramas.dk/fullscreen3/f7.html - A virtual reality of Moscow subway.

 

Warning: you will need QuickTime.