constanius Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 The medal pictured is not mine, shame about that. This is an earlier Gonzaga medal(than the one in my previous post http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php/topic/34819-holy-roman-empress-eleonora-gonzaga-circa-1657/ ) which it is claimed also shows the sunflower device. The problem is that the sunflower is native to N. America so it cannot be depicted on a medal produced before 1492! Obviously describing the flower on Pisanello's medal c.1447 as a sunflower is an anachronism, one that has been accepted & repeated until it became "fact", part of the corpus on renaissance medals. This poses the question as to what the original Gonzaga flower was. Marguerite de Valois(1553-1615) chose the marigold as her armorial device, because of the belief it followed the sun, and used the motto "I wished to follow him alone" in regard to her husband Henri IV. Whilst the embattled Charles the Ist of England(1600-1649) penned "The marigold obverves the sun, More than my subjects me have done" So in all likelihood the early Gonzaga floral device was the wild corn marigold(the cultivated marigold is also native to the New World), until the sunflower usurped it, probably c. 1600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Very interesting piece of info. Your analysis is super. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted December 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Thanks Art. There is another Old World candidate for the "marigold", if it is in fact a marigold, that being the pot marigold. But it is 100% not a sunflower. We have the internet, search engines & so much information online, this makes it much easier to research & check facts etc than previous generations. So though I might point out an error I intend no criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Wow -- I've never thought twice about all the "sunflowers" on French 17th-c. jetons. They may actually be modeled (literally and figuratively) on New World flowers, or they may simply be repeating the iconography (and the representation of the flower) from earlier figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Wow... who knew? Thanks! I read a bit online about marigolds and heliotropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Both the British Museum & The Victoria & Albert are going to amend their descriptions at their next updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brg5658 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Constanius, wonderful information! Thanks for posting the medal above. In 1995, Italy issued a 5000 L commemorative coin (for the 600th anniversary of the birth of Pisanello) that features the flower design on the reverse. It's a surprisingly beautiful coin (in my opinion) given that it's a modern. The Italians are very conscious of beauty, even on their many modern coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Beautiful! Bill Murray looks like he's lost a little weight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brg5658 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Beautiful! Bill Murray looks like he's lost a little weight! Haha, I never saw that before -- but now I'm only going to see bill Murray when I look at that coin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Beautiful! Bill Murray looks like he's lost a little weight! Brilliant. It is a beautiful coin, despite the resemblance to Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Terrific coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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