alexbq2 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hi! Would anyone here have information on how much do 1830's (wings down eagle) 5 kopeek Novodels weigh? Is there any consistency among them in terms of weight? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 i cannot focus if this info ever available in literature however i would start review theauction sales which have them there some of them list its weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hi! Would anyone here have information on how much do 1830's (wings down eagle) 5 kopeek Novodels weigh? Is there any consistency among them in terms of weight? Thanks in advance! Since neither Brekke nor Bitkin show any different dies for the novodels, I would assume they were struck from original dies and therefore should weigh about the same as the originals. But I really don't know anything about this series at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ah...the 1830 Novodels. I wrote about these in that 45-page article (Copper of Nicholas I) that I did for JRNS last year. There are some weights and more information there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thanks Steve! That helps. I think I found a 1838 EM novodel that weighs in at 22.55g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 You would see it is a novodel from the way coin looks... Those were minted much later, after the re-tooling. So the quality is much higher... I wish I could help you with weights, but all my novodels are slabbed :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 You would see it is a novodel from the way coin looks like... Those were minted much later, after the re-tolling. So the quality is much higher... I wish I could help you with weights, but all my novodels are slabbed :-( I wonder how much variation there is in the weight of a slab -- from the same company, of course? One could calculate it by taking coins of different types, but known weights, in similar slabs and doing some basic arithmetics. Of course, the diameter of the coins should be the same, otherwise it wouldn't work out correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I know someone who has 5 kop spb raw. I will ask him to bring it to me to weigh it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just realized, I got a photo of 1833 emfx novodel. It is an overdate of 1830, which shows that they used same die for multiple year production. I was not allowed to share the photo, but can compare your coin to it if you post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Some weights for regular strikes (not Novodel) from a Hungarian catalog I was just perusing: 1831EM-FX 5K 23.69g 1833EM-FX 5K 22.13g 1838CM 5K 23.57g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Here is the coin. Unfortunately it has been harshly cleaned. However the strike is uncharacteristic for the mints of that time. Coin is struck in a ring, and struck with great force - has high relief. The edge forms a high and sharp ring, edges of the field that have been spared the cleaning still have attractive sheen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 The mintmark is crooked. Almost impossible for this series of novodels. No overdate. I do not see any trace of doublestrike, but that could be due to image quality. Anyway, I would rather get the original in this condition (less cleaning, of course :-) ) than a novodel. Also, original retains a bit of value even with harsh cleaning. Novodel does not (IMXO) MY notes on novodels of this series: 1. Overdate is common, for they used one set of dies to produce multiple dates. 2. Doublestrike is common, for they were done on medallic presses and that was done to achieve much higher relief and better quality. 3. Design is perfect and minting is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 IMHO there is an overdate: Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Bigger pictures: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 could be a novodel. After all, it is your coin -- call it what you want :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Heritage Sale 425 in Jan 2007 lists an 1838EM Novodel. I have the images and will post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rnsdb Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I have an 1836 CM novodel, at least that's what the dealer said. I haven't looked at it in a while, but will weigh it when I find some time. Are the 1830 EM/CN6 patterns really novodels? I've seen too many of them around over the years to believe they're patterns. Same with the 10K. I can also weigh them Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think there are Novodels and there are patterns for that year. There's some difference in the eagles tail rounded vs. angled (or is that only for 10 kopeeks?). I believe that information is also in Steve's JRNS article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rnsdb Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Thanks for the lead. Awesome article by Steve. I only came back to Russian Numismastics after a hiatus after the 1993 database project, so I haven't been reading the JRNS but kept them all in the library. Everything I need is there. I'll have to see which of the 3 are patterns and which novodels.......the weights and ribbon are a clue. I notice in Steve's article there's no 2K 1842 CN6 listed. I showed it to Brekke & he thought it was right. If I find time, I'll try to research it out and do a post on it. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 1842СПБ 2K? Very interesting....I've never seen one. Please show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 There is a 1841 spb 2 kop. Never heard of 1842... Would be interesting to see a high res photos of the date/mintmark portion. Should be an overdate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yes, I've seen 3 1841s, but not an 1842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rnsdb Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 What's yours and sigi's secret for taking coin pics? As you can see from my 22 test pics, I don't have the knack.. I have a Canon pocket camera and a workbench in a room with flourescent lights and mounted overhead two of those 250W Chinese lamps with those tungsten filaments. I also have a mini tripod which I've never used. In spite of that, they're still mediocre I seem to recall a 1842 CN6 in an JRNS auction watch or else in a Markov/Baldwin auction. Would have been in the last 2-3 years. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Well, it's possible I missed an 1842СПБ 2K recently; I certainly don't recall seeing one and have no records that they even exist. Also, I just checked m-dv.ru (who cover Baldwin, Markov and many others) and numsimat.ru and they have nothing in their archives that I can see. They're not comprehensive though, and one may have slipped through the cracks. Or maybe yours is the only one! If anyone else has records of any example please let us know. For coin images, I'm actually very happy with my $100 scanner. I've tried using a camera, tripod, light tent, everything, and could never get results anywhere near acceptable. The camera setup also took *much* longer with lots of messing around. Everything on russiancoin.com was taken using my scanner. I especially like how the wire money comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.