Help again

[JAnnW]

 

This one is really bugging me. I've been searching the internet but can't find out what it is.

 

I think it's English but it can't be regular coinage as Victoria should be on it in 1874, shouldn't she?

 

[andyg]

It's an 1834 William IIII UK Farthing? (depends on diameter).

[ccg]

Third digit in date alertered from 3 to 7 - traces of 3 visible.

[JAnnW]

Thanks.

Its about 28mm - penny size.

And it is 1834 - shows up when the light hits it from a different angle.

So mystery solved.

Thanks for your help.

[andyg]

28mm is a half penny, the penny of the time being 32mm. A far cry from today's tiddlers!

[JAnnW]

Thanks.

 

You'd certainly know you had those in your pocket!

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Thanks.

 

You'd certainly know you had those in your pocket!

 

You mean as opposed to those plastic-feeling zinkies we in the US carry around today? (Not only do they feel like junk, but now the reverse has turned into a cheap looking logo.)

 

Of course even our old large cents weren't *that* big, but at least they were of respectable size.

 

(OK, I will quit ranting now.)

[JAnnW]

Hi Steve

 

Thinking of modern English pennies.

 

Not at all familiar with modern American money! I just gave my daughter a pile of US coins. Mostly cents and dimes from the 60's. I'm guessing those aren't current!

 

Going away to look that up now.

[ccg]

Not at all familiar with modern American money! I just gave my daughter a pile of US coins. Mostly cents and dimes from the 60's. I'm guessing those aren't current!

 

Current and with the same designs!

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Your daughter might be interested in this information then. I'm going to toss in a dash of US history for her benefit. .

 

All Federal US coinage and paper money (except the trade dollar from the 1870s and 188s) is still considered legal tender here. We've not gone through anything like the decimalisation that the UK went through in the 1970s. So your daughter's pile is still "current" in that sense. (On the other hand, one would have to be mad to spend a $20 gold piece as $20 today, and many cashiers might reject it out of ignorance. Too bad for them!) Now whether one will see a coin in circulation today is another matter, and I'll address that below.

 

Cents from the mid 1960s still show up in our change here. Ones from 1958 and earlier have a different reverse and tend to disappear once someone notices them. (And if she actually has a pre-1909 "Indian Head" cent in that pile your daughter is lucky.) The portrait is Abraham Lincoln, president from 1861-1865, during the US Civil War, and most likely his determination is what saved the United States (to the continued consternation of many southerners). It was placed there in 1909 to commemorate his 100th birthday (the same date as Charles Darwin's!). Coins from then through 1958 have ears of wheat depicted on the reverse, in 1959 the reverse changed to a depiction of the Lincoln Memorial (another architectural masterpiece, a "must see" if you ever visit Washington DC). In mid-1982 the composition changed from bronze to copper plated zinc due to inflation driving up the cost of copper (really, it drove down the value of the cent). For 1982 cents, you can tell the difference by weight or dropping the coin on a hard surface and listening to the sound. In 2009 for Lincoln's 200th birthday, the reverse showed four different scenes from his life, and in 2010 we switched to the shield design I ranted against. Anyhow, if your pile of coins was accumulated in the 1960s or 1970s as I suspect from the description, there's a decent chance of finding a couple of "wheaties" in the pile, and some of those that are before 1940 or so can be quite valuable. Even the common "wheaties" sell in bulk for as much as five cents apiece these days.

 

The five cent piece--invariably called the nickel here--had the same design from 1938-2003 and it's quite possible to get ones from the 1940s in ones change even today. The coins from midyear 1942-1945 had some silver in them and tend to disappear quickly though; you can tell those by the large P D or S mintmark above the dome of Monticello; and they tend to turn an ugly brownish black with age. It's possible but not likely your daughter has one of those, they were gone from circulation by 1970. Obverse is a portrait of Thomas Jefferson, writer of the Declaration of Independence and President from 1801-1809. The reverse depicts his house, Monticello, still in existence, designed by Jefferson and considered a masterpiece. More recently the "nickel" has gone through some changes--from 2004-2005 it commemorated the 200th anniversary of Lewis and Clark expedition into the newly acquired "Louisiana Purchase" which is basically the middle third of the main part of the US (including places as far away from present-day Louisiana as present day Montana). Jefferson was president when we acquired the Louisiana Purchase and he arranged for this expedition. Since then Thomas Jefferson has been depicted face on, and the word "Liberty" is in his handwriting. But coins of the 1938-2003 style are still quite common in circulation. (Another bit of trivia about Jefferson: One time John F. Kennedy hosted a dinner at the White House for Nobel laureates, and said during his remarks that the White House had not ever hosted a collection of intellects like this since Thomas Jefferson had last dined there... alone!)

 

The dimes could be interesting. (BTW I know the coin just says "One Dime" on it so it's possible you are unaware that a "Dime" is ten cents.) The ones dated 1964 and earlier are 90% silver. The ones after 1964 are basically identical to what we use today--we went to a cupronickel cladding over an inner layer of pure copper that year and haven't changed that, or the design, since. I frequently see 1965-1969 dimes (and later) in my change; the silver ones had just about disappeared by 1970 when I started collecting. The person pictured on the obverse is Franklin Delano Roosevelt, president from 1933-1945, who died in office shortly before the end of World War II. To summarize, any dime after 1965 is still current in circulation. Those before then are without fail worth two or three dollars today simply because of the silver content. (A question I hear even here is "why is the dime so small when it's worth two 'nickels'?" Well, because the dime used to be made out of silver, and the nickel never was, and we kept the size after we stopped doing so.) [someone on this forum is going to jump on that so I'd better say this before they do: We once upon a time made silver "half dimes" but they were (appropriately) smaller than dimes...and that ended in the 1870s and we never called those "nickels."]

 

The same is basically true of any "Quarter Dollar"s (25 cents) your daughter might have. That design goes back to 1932, ones dated 1964 and earlier are 90% silver (automatically worth five dollars or so now). Ones after then are still current and seen often. In 1999 we started ten years of commemorating each state in turn on the reverse, five per year, then in 2009 we did the district of columbia and five territories; since then we've been showing national parks and monuments, and that's slated to end in 2021 I believe--though there's an option to extend it another 11 years! I don't know if we will ever see "normal" quarters produced again since it sounds like special interests have a deathgrip on them now. (Also in 1975-76 we produced a special version for the 200th anniversary of US independence.)

 

If your daughter happens to have any half dollars, those are interesting no matter what. They no longer circulate here at all though they are still produced mainly for collectors. They were 90 percent silver up to 1964, then reduced to 40 percent silver until 1970. That pretty much killed the denomination as a circulating coin since people knew they still had silver in them and grabbed them when they saw them. Even today many people think half dollars invariably have silver in them so even if one spent a 1990 one it would likely be plucked out of circulation. Anyhow, the ones from 1963 and earlier show Benjamin Franklin and the Liberty Bell, in 1964 John F. Kennedy was placed on the coin for the last year of silver and remains on it to this day without change (other than the 1975-76 issue commemorating US Independence).

 

If your daughter's coin hoard was put together in the 1970s she might have an Eisenhower Dollar or two (1971-78) or a Susan B. Anthony dollar (1979-1981 then again in 1999). Unless by unlikely accident she got a silver Ike made for collectors, those won't be worth much more than a dollar, but you simply don't see them in circulation today. I occasionally see that sort of thing when I go to a coin dealer; if they buy a large collection they will oftentimes put coins that are interesting but not worth much more than face value into the cash register.

[mmarotta]

This one is really bugging me. I've been searching the internet but can't find out what it is.

 

The counterstamp W S makes this interesting, also.

 

Some people collect counterstamps. There are books and other listings for them. Many are lost to anonymity, especially those with two letter or a similar logo. Others - with fuller names or other stamps - are attributable to a time and place and purpose.

[JAnnW]

Michael, I know nothing about counter stamping! What is it for?

 

Steve, Thanks for that info, very interesting. I will print it out for my daughter to look at sometime. (She's engrossed in GCSE revision at the moment, I fear if I give her any more info her head will explode.) We've got a silver quarter dollar and one that's later. They feel and look quite different. Nothing very old though. Will have another look at them see if there are any wheatears.

 

Thanks

 

Julie

[JAnnW]

Steve

 

Is this what you mean by a 'wheatear'?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591718482/in/set-72157626420284102

[Dockwalliper]

Steve

 

Is this what you mean by a 'wheatear'?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591718482/in/set-72157626420284102

 

You got it. Thats a 1952 Wheatie with a San Francisco mint mark.

[JAnnW]

The five cent piece--invariably called the nickel here--had the same design from 1938-2003 and it's quite possible to get ones from the 1940s in ones change even today. The coins from midyear 1942-1945 had some silver in them and tend to disappear quickly though; you can tell those by the large P D or S mintmark above the dome of Monticello; and they tend to turn an ugly brownish black with age. It's possible but not likely your daughter has one of those, they were gone from circulation by 1970.

 

Ummmm......

 

 

[JAnnW]

That was supposed to be a quote from Steve (above) but I couldn't figure out how to do it properly

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Yep that's one of the war nickels (large S above the dome of the building), with some silver content. (And yes, that's a "wheatie" cent as collectors call them nowadays.) And having a silver quarter is definitely a bonus. You mentioned dimes; I'd guess you probably have some silver amongst those as well.

 

As an aside, on the nickels that aren't war nickels, the mint mark (if any) was on the reverse, to the right of Monticello, before 1965 and was on the obverse, below the date, after 1967 (there were no mint marks at all from 1965-7). Similarly for dimes, quarters and halves, the mint mark was somewhere on the reverse before 1965 (look near the bottom of the design) and moved to below the date in 1968 after they got debased. No mint mark = Philadelphia, D = Denver, S = San Francisco. (Philadelphia did put its P mark on those wartime nickels, and also has been putting its mark on US coins since 1980, except for the cent. Why they omitted the cent when they changed is beyond my ken.)

 

The more I write these the more I realize that even relatively recent US numismatic history is actually fairly complicated. It's all stuff that a US collector picks up in a hurry and more than likely assumes everyone knows--but I know you are over there on the other side of the pond. I haven't up to now noticed all this history happening because I've lived through it; when it unrolls in slow motion it doesn't seem that complicated.

[JAnnW]

Steve

 

It's very interesting! Dimes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591718224/

(pity about the hole)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591719656/in/set-72157626434034520/

 

I'm guessing the older ones have some silver content. Really should read some US history. If I looked at a British coin dated 1858 I would know what was happening at the time, which is part of the interest ie taking me back to that place in history. Having fun attaching bits of history to various foreign coins. My daughter did a little research and told me who the various presidents where on the coins she has.

 

Loving coins. Sooo much to learn..

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Steve

 

It's very interesting! Dimes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591718224/

(pity about the hole)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49314257@N03/5591719656/in/set-72157626434034520/

 

I'm guessing the older ones have some silver content. Really should read some US history. If I looked at a British coin dated 1858 I would know what was happening at the time, which is part of the interest ie taking me back to that place in history. Having fun attaching bits of history to various foreign coins. My daughter did a little research and told me who the various presidents where on the coins she has.

 

Loving coins. Sooo much to learn..

 

Any dime 1964 and earlier is silver. The one you have there dated 1919 is what we call a "Mercury" dime. I would have mentioned them earlier but I didn't think it would turn out you had anything pre-1946. Mercury dimes ran from 1916-1946. The type before that (1892-1916) is what we call a "Barber" type dime, because it was designed and engraved by Charles E. Barber. (The same Barber design motif existed on quarters and half dollars in this period.) The type before _that_ is the Seated Liberty (with six or eight sub-types depending on how you count them); that's the one with the hole in it. Well I do not actually have a Seated Liberty dime, at least not yet, so you have me beat there. (Of course when I do get one it will be uncirculated!)

 

The 1967 dime you show has no silver content, and if you ever come Stateside you could spend it; it's "current" in every sense of the word.

[JAnnW]

Thanks for all the info.

I guess that seated liberty dime came off a bracelet (all my small silver coins have similar holes).

I was supposed to be 'de-cluttering' my house and getting rid of stuff, but now I've got interested, so I'm going to keep the coins. Oh dear. Will have to try hard not to start collecting.