bobh Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Check out the descriptions to lots 6433-6437. Here's the link to the first one; the others can be viewed by clicking the "Next" link on the upper right: http://sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&sid=171&lot=6433 Some are listed as "AG", others as "AR" (mintmaster initials). Weight is given as 7.30 grams fine gold (should be 7.74 g which corresponds to 8.6 g coin weight for 0.900 gold). I've sent them an e-mail and a link to this old forum thread. It will be interesting to see if they withdraw these or not. I'm assuming that the AG coins are probably genuine, unless their weight is given accurately. There are also some slight differences in the obverse design (look at the point of the bust, for example) and in the alignment of the denticles to the legend on the reverse. (Edit: Actually, all of these look fishy to me after closer comparison with genuine coins. However, it is possible that there are unlisted varieties that I am not aware of.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well, they have sent my message to their "experts" ... Doesn't take much of an expert to see that a wrong mintmaster for 1899 and a fishy-looking gold weight add up to a fake coin, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Check out the descriptions to lots 6433-6437. Here's the link to the first one; the others can be viewed by clicking the "Next" link on the upper right:http://sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&sid=171&lot=6433 Some are listed as "AG", others as "AR" (mintmaster initials). Weight is given as 7.30 grams fine gold (should be 7.74 g which corresponds to 8.6 g coin weight for 0.900 gold). I've sent them an e-mail and a link to this old forum thread. It will be interesting to see if they withdraw these or not. I'm assuming that the AG coins are probably genuine, unless their weight is given accurately. There are also some slight differences in the obverse design (look at the point of the bust, for example) and in the alignment of the denticles to the legend on the reverse. Actually, all of these look fishy to me after closer comparison with genuine coins. However, it is possible that there are unlisted varieties that I am not aware of.) Good catch. After having looked at the pieces in question your next-to-last statement ("look fishy") seems appropriate. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I remembered that mintmaster initials (A.G), which written in Cyrillic letters (А.Г), are sometimes written as (A.r) with Latin letters because the lower-case "R" looks similar to "Г". Could be that this is the source of confusion? However, these coins do look strange to me, and someone should have caught the weight discrepancy before creating the catalog. Sixbid.com seems to be having difficulties as it has been inaccessible now for several hours ... but these coins are still up at the G&M website (www.gmcoinart.de). They really should either correct the errors or withdraw them from the auction, as this is terrible for their reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 UPDATE: I received a very nice e-mail today from Gorny & Mosch ... they are withdrawing the three 1899 coins with mintmaster "AR"! After weighing the other ones with mintmaster "AG", they found that these had the correct weight and think that they are therefore genuine. And although these coins are not necessarily something to write home about, they do seem to look like the genuine article ... I noticed that the three fakes also seem to have very thin rim borders. On the obverse of one of them, you can even see where the gold plating has chipped on Nicholas II's cheekbone and see the base metal underneath: Lot 6437 Now they should correct the gold weight for the genuine coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Good work. You've saved someone or some people some potential heart ache in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Another update -- the weight of the fake coins, according to Gorny & Mosch, was 8.61, 8.43 and 8.47 grams. Although 8.6 is the correct weight, the mintmaster is wrong. The other two lighter coins' weight is consistent with the 1899-AR fake that I had (8.4 grams). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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