Ippocampos Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Gentlemen, With sorrow I must sell my beard token for personal reasons and I will probably sell off my silver coins too and keep the copper coins (and table medals another passion) as have to analyse all of these with steve (you are copper man indeed i hear) as I do believe copper is the most fascinating part of russian numismatics.. Just a note as to why I may be on ebay from time to time... for lack of a better alternative. Bought this token about 5 years ago from ebay france and have to say think i got lucky as the pieces size, colour (copper is not artificially patina'd but has this copper blueish wear if you know what i mean .. on the worn surfaces) says to me that this is authentic.. I have some fakes too (bought as fakes and the difference is huge..(in fact what are this forums thoughts on http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...15&lot=1055 as am not fully convinced) on checking it with an auction house they said that it was authentic and wanted to sell it.. but i dont like/trust them with my coins. A) Any ideas on a reliable auction house to sell my silver.... for future? Curiosity still niggles as to have your opinions on this item .. If I am wrong then it will promptly be removed of course.. however I must say it really does feel and look right. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260216847879 PS my Borodino rouble fiasco story went dead so ... still waiting for my coin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Bought this token about 5 years ago from ebay france and have to say think i got lucky as the pieces size, colour (copper is not artificially patina'd but has this copper blueish wear if you know what i mean .. on the worn surfaces) says to me that this is authentic.. I have some fakes too (bought as fakes and the difference is huge..... Curiosity still niggles as to have your opinions on this item .. If I am wrong then it will promptly be removed of course.. however I must say it really does feel and look right: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260216847879 The letters don't look exactly right to me. I won't say which ones, though. (in fact what are this forums thoughts on http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...15&lot=1055 as am not fully convinced) on checking it with an auction house they said that it was authentic and wanted to sell it.. but i dont like/trust them with my coins. This looks OK to me. Any ideas on a reliable auction house to sell my silver.... for future? Since you are in Switzerland, why not Hess-Divo, Tkalic or UBS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ippocampos Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 The letters don't look exactly right to me. I won't say which ones, though.This looks OK to me. Since you are in Switzerland, why not Hess-Divo, Tkalic or UBS? Enigmatic.. pls elaborate. Also on the second coin i thought on originals the nose came straight down from the A.. hence this would make it a novodel? not an original no? Maybe UBS indeed...tks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Also on the second coin i thought on originals the nose came straight down from the A.. hence this would make it a novodel? not an original no? Correct. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Curiosity still niggles as to have your opinions on this item .. If I am wrong then it will promptly be removed of course.. however I must say it really does feel and look right. Looks just fine to me. Is it gilded? Some beard tokens were. Steve Ahh...the ebay description says gilded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Bought this token about 5 years ago from ebay france and have to say think i got lucky as the pieces size, colour (copper is not artificially patina'd but has this copper blueish wear if you know what i mean .. on the worn surfaces) says to me that this is authentic.. Curiosity still niggles as to have your opinions on this item .. If I am wrong then it will promptly be removed of course.. however I must say it really does feel and look right. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260216847879 Your token looks okay to me as well. I don't have an original, only this novodel (one of the very few novodels I own): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Here's mine. ex Klingert Sale 1910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Here's mine. ex Klingert Sale 1910 Very nice! And a provenance worth noting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mummytrol Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Gentlemen, With sorrow I must sell my beard token for personal reasons and I will probably sell off my silver coins too and keep the copper coins (and table medals another passion) as have to analyse all of these with steve (you are copper man indeed i hear) as I do believe copper is the most fascinating part of russian numismatics.. Just a note as to why I may be on ebay from time to time... for lack of a better alternative. Bought this token about 5 years ago from ebay france and have to say think i got lucky as the pieces size, colour (copper is not artificially patina'd but has this copper blueish wear if you know what i mean .. on the worn surfaces) says to me that this is authentic.. I have some fakes too (bought as fakes and the difference is huge..(in fact what are this forums thoughts on http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...15&lot=1055 as am not fully convinced) on checking it with an auction house they said that it was authentic and wanted to sell it.. but i dont like/trust them with my coins. A) Any ideas on a reliable auction house to sell my silver.... for future? Curiosity still niggles as to have your opinions on this item .. If I am wrong then it will promptly be removed of course.. however I must say it really does feel and look right. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260216847879 PS my Borodino rouble fiasco story went dead so ... still waiting for my coin!! Sorry, Gentlemen! It is looks like it was g ilded yesterday! Thank you. Mummytrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Enigmatic.. pls elaborate. Sorry if I sounded enigmatic here ... I wanted to take a second look at the pictures in Brekke, and I didn't consult Bitkin on this one yet. While the lettering looks mostly OK, the shape and angle of the "И" in "ДЕНГИ" looks a bit strange when compared to the pictures of Brekke 3. There might be some other minor differences, but I'm not sure yet. Also on the second coin i thought on originals the nose came straight down from the A.. hence this would make it a novodel? not an original no? Brekke publishes images of the novodel (#7) which is silver. Presumably this would be a novodel made from original dies; I believe that Brekke indicates Class 2 novodels where they appear (e.g. 5 kopeks 1765-EM, Brekke 205). Therefore, if I am correct, there must be an original in copper which corresponds to this novodel. Since Brekke provides no images for #6, I assume that this is the case. The beard token in the NY Sale is described as Brekke 6, and the pictures match the illustration for Brekke 7 exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Therefore, if I am correct, there must be an original in copper which corresponds to this novodel. Since Brekke provides no images for #6, I assume that this is the case. The beard token in the NY Sale is described as Brekke 6, and the pictures match the illustration for Brekke 7 exactly. Brekke 6 (original without counterstamp) is illustrated in "Beard Tokens" by R. Zander, JRNS 12, P14-23, available at your favorite RNS website. The nose starts in the center of the A as with all originals. The sixbid coin is a novodel. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Brekke 6 (original without counterstamp) is illustrated in "Beard Tokens" by R. Zander, JRNS 12, P14-23, available at your favorite RNS website. The nose starts in the center of the A as with all originals. The sixbid coin is a novodel. Steve Would this be a silver novodel, then? Or is there a copper novodel which is unlisted in Brekke? I find it hard to imagine that Dmitry Markov would have made such a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Would this be a silver novodel, then? Or is there a copper novodel which is unlisted in Brekke? I find it hard to imagine that Dmitry Markov would have made such a mistake! Hi Bob. There are no novodels from original dies, anywhere (Chizov/Spassky/Zander). I'm confused as to why you think this has to be silver or unlisted in Brekke??? Finally, don't be too surprised. I have seen other errors in this and other New York Sale catalogs. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Hi Bob. There are no novodels from original dies, anywhere (Chizov/Spassky/Zander). OK, this clears up my misconception here. I'm confused as to why you think this has to be silver or unlisted in Brekke??? Looks like the sixbid coin would have to be Brekke 4, the most common one ... is that right? Finally, don't be too surprised. I have seen other errors in this and other New York Sale catalogs. It happens. If Brekke 4 is the most common of all (originals and novodels), then it still surprises me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Looks like the sixbid coin would have to be Brekke 4, the most common one ... is that right? Correct. Another clue...the crown is also Novodel form. Once again....JRNS 12 http://www.russiannumismaticsociety.org/JRNS12.html Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Brekke 6 (original without counterstamp) is illustrated in "Beard Tokens" by R. Zander, JRNS 12, P14-23, available at your favorite RNS website. There are still hard copies of JRNS from 1983 hanging around? Or are these reprints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 There are still hard copies of JRNS from 1983 hanging around? Or are these reprints? Depends. There are still originals available from the Elmens. On the RNS website, yes I do have some originals left for some years; if not, an issue is run off from the digital archive when somebody orders. You can read about it here http://www.russiannumismaticsociety.org/Available.htm Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Depends. There are still originals available from the Elmens. On the RNS website, yes I do have some originals left for some years; if not, an issue is run off from the digital archive when somebody orders. You can read about it here http://www.russiannumismaticsociety.org/Available.htm Steve Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thank you. You're welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ippocampos Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 You're welcome Thanks for your info Steve. By the way I would be interested to get an archive of all journals plus be put on the list for all future articles whats should I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks for your info Steve. By the way I would be interested to get an archive of all journals plus be put on the list for all future articles whats should I do? You're welcome. I'll respond to the other question in a PM. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Gentlemen, What are the ladies who frequent this forum going to say to this?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260216847879 PS my Borodino rouble fiasco story went dead so ... still waiting for my coin!! I would say "Congratulations" for your beard token sale ... except that now it looks like you will have to send yet another coin to Russia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Congratulations on the sale. Seems like a fair price given others I've seen sold recently. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysnik Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Looks like you got "lucky" again - another buyer from Russia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Not only is the buyer in Russia, the buyer has only been on eBay for about 2 weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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