schutzenfester

The interest I have in shooting medals has emanated directly from my initial interest in and subsequent collection of Swiss shooting talers and `so called talers'.

 

I have always had a thing for city views, scenery, and architecture and find the depth of field obtained by some of the medal strikes to be absolutely stunning. Have to confess that I find the design and strike of some shooting medals to be (cough) less than inspirational. Like any collecting field ...to each their own. While i will cherry pick and collect what draws my attention with regards to `shooters' some collectors will collect almost anything and everything in the field, and for bona fide purposes of their own.

 

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any shooting talers posted so far. I had thought of doing so myself but presumed (perhaps erroneously) that most `world' coin collectors would have a few examples of these in their collections (?).

 

Have to say though that while i'm not adverse to `slabbing' for preservation purposes, I find the concept of using the US MS grading `concept' to these items to be more of a joke than anything else.

Between my Dad and myself we have all the Swiss Shooting Thalers. But our interest is in the shooting medals and not as much so in the thalers. Most coin collectors pursue the thalers before the medals for the fact that the thalers are categorized as coins. I concentrate almost entirely on medals, cups, other award types, postcards/periodicals, memorabilia, and thalers for schützenfests in that order.

Rod, I agree with you regarding holding the medals in hand. My rational for slabbing is preservation. These accumulate dust and demand care which I prefer avoiding. Obviously, should these end up in someone else's hands in the future, they can break the medal free

 

I too enjoy the interest of others in these. Be well, Zohar

I can't say I disagree with slabbing because I do not. I own many slabbed coins, a few medals and several modern Swiss Thalers. I agree with your rational in regards to preservation. Although I do not handle all my medals and do like viewing them close up with my eye and with a loupe. Looking through a slab piece of plastic is just not the same as I am sure you are aware.

I have handled many schützenfest medals over the years, my Father even more. We have seen pristine medals and own pristine medals that have never been slabbed and still look like they did the day they were awarded. Many times preservation is in the "hands" of the one who owns the medal. With that said I doubt I would ever take a slabbed medal out of the slab just to be able to hold it. And as many, I buy the coin and/or the medal not the slab.

I am a conservative grader, my father may be even more conservative and I have seen NGC and PCGS become more liberal in their grading over the years and in terms of schützenfest medals it appears the same in some instances. Plus how does PCGS and NGC grade medals? Based on what expertise? Based on numismatic criteria? I feel that shooting medals are vastly different than coins; deeper and more intricate engraving, induced patinas and so on. I am just glad that I started this lifelong journey of schützenfest collecting when I did and I have to thank my Dad for many years of teaching and the honing of my skills of collecting theses beauties as well as other schützenfest memorabilia.

Just my two cents and IMHO.

Another IMHO; your schützenfest medals, slabbed or not are very nice indeed!

Out of curiosty, what specific medals to you speak of when you say you were not aware that altered medals could be slabbed?

Perhaps you are speaking of Kim's oval medal R894 from Luzern 1920. If this is the case, this medal is not altered, the pin back was how it was awarded.

I forgot about the 1920 Luzern pinback when I asked the above question and I now assume that is what "altered" probably pertained to.

Great stuff!

 

I wasn't aware that altered coins/medals could be slabbed.

Out of curiosty, what specific medals to you speak of when you say you were not aware that altered medals could be slabbed?

Zohar - As noted on another forum I don't think any of the new medals are overgraded. They all look spot on to me. Care to offer an opinion Rod?

 

TDP - The 1901 Luzern was designed by Hans Frei from Basel, one of my favorite Swiss engravers. ALL of his designs are beautiful, and some are actually affordable.

The medals appear to be graded fairly. As we are all keenly aware, it is difficult to see every detail in a photo especially with the lighting of some of these. As I have stated previously, grading of shooting medals by a third party is out of the norm in this collecting field or at least in Europe and at most auctions. Certainly it is not the case here or with Zohars examples. I love to look at shooting medals close up and out side of slabs but I understand why some like and at times prefer slabbing.

Most of all I am very happy to see there is a growing appreciation and group of collectors since for so many years schützenfest medals were only appreciated by a few, relative to coin collecting.

Very nice medals Kim and Zohar.

Kim, I'm glad my grading was more conservative than NGC's (but close). Grading is a difficult art since it is subjective IMHO. I am happy when my customers are satisfied with their purchases.

Thanks to both of you for posting pics of a few very nice Swiss Schützenfest medals.

Happy New Year everyone!

Because I know a couple of you visit my website I wanted to let you know that I have added 20 items to inventory. These twenty items are a diverse group with many white metal pieces, a few paper jetons, silver and bronze medals, and some modern talers.

Please visit my Photo Album page where you can view other shooting medals and many photos taken at the Bern Schützen Museum.

Rod

Hello and I hope everyone had a great Holiday!

I should have a few new medals added to inventory this week, please visit the site if you are interested.

HiHo,

I caught the mistake after looking at the pictures in my office. I came online to see that you made note of it but before I could make the correction. That is what I get for 'measuring once' as they say. Quite embarrassing but I did communicate to Texascoins regarding the mistake.

Happy New Year to all.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

It is a beautiful medal.

Your pictures certainly show it's great detail and condition!

I would like one of the Holy Freres, and any with attractive feminine portraits on them. I like Swiss Misses.

Did you happen to see the first medal of the list? Not only is it engraved by Holy Freres but it also has a Swiss Miss as you describe.

And everything I would want is marked hold or sold

Scottishmoney,

I'm sorry the two you would be interested in are on hold. Hopefully in the future I will have a medal that piques your interest.

Rod, I like the new website much more than the old one. It has a real professional look, it's easy to navigate and understand, I'll give it an A+.

 

Order submitted.

Thanks Kim! I think it is better than the old one too.

Very nice site. The medals are all beautiful.

Thanks Art!

Great site by the way! Can't wait to see where it goes!

Thank you very much!

Well, after quite some time of inactivity and decision making, I'm happy to announce the creation and publication of my new website devoted to Swiss Schützenfest.

It is called: Rod Moore Schutzenfest and it resides at shootingmedals.com. Please go there and bookmark it so you can return often.

I presently have inventory of 12 pieces and since stock is extremely limited and difficult to obtain (for quite some time now) it is possible that I may have little or no stock at times but I will always attempt to have something available for sale.

As some of you are aware, I'm am mainly a collector and not a dealer and have a decent collection of my own. My Father has a large collection and contributes substantially to the website in terms of stock and education to other collectors and myself (thankfully). We primarily have the site to get more people interested in Swiss Shooting medal collecting as a hobby.

The site will not be listed in Google and Yahoo for a few months so I suppose so it may be harder to find via the search engines right now.

Again, it is called Rod Moore Schutzenfest and the address is: htpp://www.shootingmedals.com

Please let anyone you feel may be interested know about my new site. I would also appreciate it if you share your thoughts about the site and also let me know if you find any typos and/or other discrepancies and I will make the required corrections.

I hope you find the site interesting and a web address you visit regularly.

Best regards,

They are like tiny silver Mona Lisa's. The gold medal's are even nicer, especially the 1910 Bern. A mere 400 of these were produced, I'm still amazed I was able to purchase one.

 

Sometimes I sit for hours in my comfy chair at home and page through the Richter catalog. And marvel at the beauty of these medals.

"Oh man, I would love to find a 1912 Bern Bumpliz for sale" I have said to myself on several occasions.

Heck, I would even settle for a 1913 Bern Worb. I have thought that too. (Both are Holy Freres medals.)

 

My wife has asked me several times, "Haven't you finished reading that book yet?" "Someday, maybe...I'm slow." I usually mutter.

 

The most artistic medals IMHO are the one's by Holy Freres, Huguenin and Hans Frei. Get the Richter set and see for yourself, the photographs and print quality are exceptional.

 

Or just buy the Schutzenfest medals that you like and Rod and I can look them up for you. I usually have the book open anyway...

Yes, I am always willing to assist any way I can.

Rod, do by all means avoid the fleaBay venue for letting of your fine medals and offer them in more meaningful venues such as the BST here on this board. Avoid the usurious fees, and endeavour to find loving homes for especially your Swiss Misses - I know someone personally - well I think I know him most days, he likes adding Misses from all around the world into his numismatic harem

Yes, I don't believe I will use eBay. I too think their fees are high and for the low annual cost of a web site I can keep a few medals available at all times. Good inventory has been especially hard to obtain lately but I will do my best when I can. Glad to know you like the Swiss misses. I will keep that in mind for the future.

Rod

Kim and Tim,

I appreciate your words and sentiments very much, thank you.

Rod

Rod - If you ever resume your Schutzenfest auctions, either on your own website or on eBay, please let me know so I don't miss them.

 

And don't bother telling Scottishmoney, I'm sure he wouldn't be interested in the least...

Kim,

There have been some health issues with my Mother so my Dad has been on a hiatus for several months. I have had some turmoil in my professional life that has precluded me from doing the auctions. Once my Mom is better and all is back to normal and once I get a new web site (Geocities is gone as of end of October) I will commence once again. I may concentrate on eBay but I don't really like giving them as much money as they want especially when the customer base in somewhat limited. Auctions are not the best venue in my opinion and I believe the next venture will be strictly sales. But none if this is written in stone.

Getting inventory for the web site as well as our customer has been very difficult. We get most of our inventory directly from Switzerland and it has been very slim pickings this entire year. We hope things change soon. We love our hobby and growing our collections but we also love helping others grow theirs as well as doing whatever we can to spread the schützenfest fever so to speak!

I wish Scottishmoney would compete with the collecting, it will only help the hobby overall.

My Father and I have attended a couple of auctions here and abroad. We have participated in many auctions via phone, catalogs etc. I can honestly say that the slabbing of shooting medals is very rare. The slabbing of modern shooting medals is somewhat more common and slabbing of talers being the most common because they are considered coins. Some will say there are not coins since they only were considered 'coins' during the shoot.

As Ian stated, most shooting medals have a high degree of artistic merit to them and putting them in a slab certainly takes away the enjoyment of experiencing the medal itself. I have been collecting for over 25 years and my Dad for over 45 years and we have very few slabbed shooting medals (talers) and even without having slabbed examples we still have likely some of the best condition medals owned.

However, I have to say there have been a couple of accidents over the years but I can also say that the condition of most of our shooting medals has not changed enough to be considered noticeable by anyone including a 3rd party grading service. Please remember all the coins and medals that were kept so nice for so many many years one way or another before 3rd party grading services were around, how did they stay so nice?

This is just my humble opinion and I certainly do not think it wrong of anyone who wants to slab, I have many slabbed coins and quite a few slabbed modern talers, a couple of slabbed 19th century talers but no slabbed 19th and early 20th century shooting medals. I just like them so much that I look at them closely often and the slab will prevent me from doing this.

I do agree that slabbing of shooting medals will probably increase some interest in the hobby but I do not think it will result in an increase in interest for the true collector of shooting medals. As many people state often, buy the "medal" not the slab.

I would love some competition.

Let's keep this post alive.

For now I will post a couple of pics from my visit to the Schützen Museum in Bern, Switzerland. I was there 2 years ago with my dad for a medals auction.

I couldn't possibly be any happier with this medal. One of a kind this nice.

 

And I am stockpiling my overtime hours in hope of relieving you and your dad of more Holy Freres gold medals that you may stumble upon.

It will be our pleasure Kim and I hope we can oblige.

I very happy you like the medal Kim