constanius Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 What is the winged victory dancing on? The first has ALBISIL written on it, the other has MOLDA. Any ideas as to the meaning of ALBISIL or MOLDA? This is the reverse of silvered, Frederick the Great 1757, BATTLE OF PRAGUE 1757 medal :FAMA PRVDENTIA VIRTVTE. In exergue: AVSTIR-EXERC- PROPE-PRAGEVNDIT-CAESOET-PRAGA OBSESSA VI MAJI MDCCLVII. Victory kicks Bohemia, knocking off her crown, 48mm (Olding 604a). Engraver Holtzhey The obverse can be seen in our exonumia virtual museum if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goetzdude Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 What is the winged victory dancing on? The first has ALBISIL written on it, the other has MOLDA. Any ideas as to the meaning of ALBISIL or MOLDA? This is the reverse of silvered, Frederick the Great 1757, BATTLE OF PRAGUE 1757 medal :FAMA PRVDENTIA VIRTVTE. In exergue: AVSTIR-EXERC- PROPE-PRAGEVNDIT-CAESOET-PRAGA OBSESSA VI MAJI MDCCLVII. Victory kicks Bohemia, knocking off her crown, 48mm (Olding 604a). Engraver Holtzhey The obverse can be seen in our exonumia virtual museum if you are interested. the wheels of the cannon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Thaks for your reply. That is what I thought, but I did not want to post it and influence the first answer. I am glad you think the same (something about great minds think alike or is it fools seldom differ?). Now my other thought was could Albisil be Albania and MOLDA be Moldavia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Albania and Moldova were still Ottoman territories back then. Moldova would later become Austrian/Russian so it doesn't seem to fit. I was thinking they looked like powder kegs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Tried searching for ALBISIL and MOLDA to no avail, assumed latin or prussian but can not find them in any language, the engraver did such a fine job I presume he knew what they meant, and expected the purchasers of the medal to know. Perhaps they meant powder keg, or if wheels, left and right. Perhaps they are the cannon makers names? Just found out Prague is on the river Molda! (spelt Moldau also) also known as Vltava, . The Vltava (German: Moldau) is the longest river in the Czech Republic, running north from its source in Šumava through Český Krumlov, České Budějovice, and Prague (Praha), merging with the Elbe. First attested in Latin as ALBIS, the name Elbe means "river" or "river-bed". It would appear that whatever the objects are, the writing on them refers to the two rivers which merge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Nice research, the river names do indeed make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Another wild guess with the additional information: If they were wheels for the cannon, they should be larger? They arrayed items are victor's spoils. In addition to the cannon, a suit of armor is present, a shield, a powder keg, banners, perhaps agricultural products. I've been racking my brain and examining other medals to find a counterpart for the items you ask about. Once you said the names are the two rivers (and I believe that is what they are), then my mind turned to other medals of the period with various gods hold urns pouring out the river's waters. I think you may be seeing the water pouring out of the MOLDA side above the cannon (the other is obscured by the mouth of the cannon). The urns would have been recognizable at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 You are right Bill, they are the rivers gushing from urns. Another mystery solved. It is amazing what we can achieve in this day and age with computer research and pooling our resources (brains) together over the internet in such a short time. A big thank you to everyone. This is a great community to belong to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 This is one of my tokens! Cambridge 1/2d D&H 16 MDCCXCI it is a mule with a Glasgow city token. Listed as scarce. It clearly shows the Clyde river flowing from an urn with CLYDE written on it. How did I miss connecting this with the Prague medal! My only excuse is that I did not know that MOLDA & ALBISIL were rivers at first , and there was no river god to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goetzdude Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 This is one of my tokens! Cambridge 1/2d D&H 16 MDCCXCI it is a mule with a Glasgow city token. Listed as scarce. It clearly shows the Clyde river flowing from an urn with CLYDE written on it. How did I miss connecting this with the Prague medal! My only excuse is that I did not know that MOLDA & ALBISIL were rivers at first , and there was no river god to be seen. And he's got a rudder in his left hand too....could have answered both of your questions at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Is the river god pouring out the river a modern theme or did they pick this up from ancient mythology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Lucius Verus 7 Mar 161 - Feb 169 A.D Æ 32mm of Augusta Traiana, Thrace. AV KAI L AVPELIOC OVHPOC, cuirassed bust right / HGE TOUL MAXIMOU AUGOVCTH TPAINANEC, River-god reclining left, holding a branch & leaning upon urn from which issues a river. SNG Cop 810. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Indeed, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 This was an awesome thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Lucius Verus 7 Mar 161 - Feb 169 A.D Æ 32mm of Augusta Traiana, Thrace. AV KAI L AVPELIOC OVHPOC, cuirassed bust right / HGE TOUL MAXIMOU AUGOVCTH TPAINANEC, River-god reclining left, holding a branch & leaning upon urn from which issues a river. SNG Cop 810. What's interesting is that now I am noticing these urns spilling rivers on other items where before their presence would never have penetrated into my consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 What's interesting is that now I am noticing these urns spilling rivers on other items where before their presence would never have penetrated into my consciousness. The French have drawn on the classical theme of the river god / goddess for numerous silver jetons. Here's a few interesting ones however: According to Eduard Frossards short catalogue of Franco American jetons, although this one was minted for the Tresor Royal in 1725 it relates to the French American colonies. The reverse depicts a river god, complete with river flowing from an urn. Interestingly, the god is resting his foot on an alligator / crocodile. I had thought this to be something to do with France's connection with Egypt but apparently the connection is more likely to be Louisianna with the river being the Mississippi (?) The river god of the Rhone and the goddess of the Saone are supporting the arms of Lyon on the obverse of this silver jeton issued for the Lyon Chambre de Commerce in 1717. Both rivers dominate the geography of Lyon and fundamentally were the economic backbone of the region in terms of transport and agriculture. This one was issued in 1826 in relation to the rail connection between St Etienne and Lyon. The obverse depicts the goddess of the Loire with the god of the Rhone... no doubt about it...they are both urning their keep (sorry but I couldn't resist that one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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