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sigistenz

Clovers in Elizabeth's crown - how many were there?

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On Elizabeth's coins the crown over her cipher is decorated with clovers, sometimes with 3, sometimes with 5. How many had there really been??? On the 1759 five kopek both variants occur:

Eyfl1f.jpg

IeVQHl.jpg

But which was the correct design - how many clovers had been on the real crown - 3 or 5 ????  See below.

mwF260.jpg

Maybe the clovers were on the backside?

Sigi

 

 

 

 

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The pictures of the crowns above, as pictured by you, Sigi, were published in 1744 publication by Russian Imperial Academy of Science in Coronation of Elisaveta Petrovna . This is a fine choice of the crowns' pictures. I am not sure, if the clovers were running around the crown, but we can see 3 clear and 2 on the sides only partly. So, both 3 and 5 clover interpretations are possible. I don't have a better picture, but here is a pyataks' original crown as it appeared on the 1758 SPM produced 5 kopecks. It seams it has 3 clovers seen clearly and the side ones only partly, like on the actual picture of the imperial crown.

crown.jpg

As an off topic, in the same publication there was a picture of ceremonial rods with 4 headed eagles that I think may be interesting to everyone who only accustomed to seeing 2 headed eagles. )))

ceremonial rods.jpg

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I wonder if the gender of the various eagle designs has been researched.  

It is well known that among birds of prey, including the (single headed) Eagle, the female is typically larger than the male of the species.

Perhaps the same characteristic is true for our Imperial 2 headed friend.  If so, how to tell?

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Eugene, I am sorry but I can't see anything that resembles a clover :confus: . On the Imperial Crown there is an ornamented  cross and on the small crown there are three 5 petaled flowers - nothing that I'd call  clovers. And that is what I meant to say.

Josh, that is a very good question. As the eagle's bust is covered I imagine it female :crazy:

Sigi

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In that case clovers represent flowers or whatever else is in the same relative positions. Décor is not as important as relative shape of the crown on pyataks. 

If you look through 1730 dengas, there are some eagle variants that undoubtedly prove eagle male origin. ))) 
These are the usual (no sex determined) eagles:

Denga_1730_goda_1248.jpg1_523aeb1ec2a9b.jpg

and this is the one I mentioned above:

p_5bb3c488e806f.jpg

Though, I believe that Russian double-headed eagle represents an idea of Moscow being established as a Third Rome, and has little to do with gender theorists... ))) 

Have a Merry Xmas everyone! )))

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Hi Sigi, Had another look at what you have written and at my coins. Spent a little bit of time to take better pictures of the crowns and that's what I put together to share with you and with those who may read this:

crowns.jpg

It looks that the first crowns on 1757 SPM 2 kopecks already had kind of clover leaves, but more elaborated in design with empty space inside of the clover leaves. In Moscow (picture from MM 2 kopecks with nominal above the St.George) clovers became solid and distinct. On EM coins the clover features are not as clear and consistent, so I didn't put them in. Though on some EM 2 kopeck crowns I could see distinct 3 clovers.

On the "ideal" pyatak (SPM tiral strike of model coins for Ekaterinburg and possibly for Moscow) there are no clovers. It resembles the imperial crown as it was pictured in 1744 publication, presented by you above. Instead of clovers there is a cross in the middle and I dare say it is repeated on the sides. The connection between crosses and crosses themselves, in combination, resemble the 3 corners' figures that later were replaced with 3 corners' clovers.

This already can be recognized on the later example of SM pyatak and on MM 5 kopecks. On MM 5 kopecks, I can see 3 "normal" orientation clovers in the middle and 2 "inverted" clovers (1 on each of the sides). On EM coins 3 and smaller (in shape) 5 "normal orientation" clovers are commonly found, and 4 clovers can be found too, however rarely.  

Bottom line is, that there were not suppose to be any clovers on pyataks crowns, but other devices. Though, clovers they took over these devices, because it was easier to repair with clover tools and very difficult to repeat the original design with crosses.

Thank you for making me look into it further, Sigi! 👍

 

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Great supplementation:ok: thank you, Eugene. Trying to find (and hunt down) the 4 clovers crown now.......

Sigi

 

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