SMS

It does take some time and experience to be able to recognize the differences in grade (where I used the generic terms "superb" and "gem").  With the proof and uncirculated sets you can purchase from the mint, there are 11 possible numeric grades from 60-70.  There are a number of books out there that explain grading and try to show how to do so.

Learning to recognize the differences does require that you look at a number of different examples in hand.  Yet, even the average person is more than capable ot learning to do so!  If you are interested in learning this, there are a number of books that would be useful:

• Official Guide To Coin Grading And Counterfeit Detection by PCGS
• Photograde: Official Photographic Grading Guide for United States Coins by James F. Ruddy
• Grading Coins By Photographs: An Action Guide For The Collector And Investor by Q. David Bowers
• The Official ANA Grading Standards For United States Coins by Kenneth Bressett

You can also get apps for your android device (for free) like PCGS Photograde.

I would have to say you are incorrect in the assumption. 

There are a number of reasons a dealer might remove coins from their OGP (Original Government Packaging).  Rarely, a dealer may break apart sets to create rolls whose premiums may bring a greater profit than the individual sets would bring. Sometimes, there are leftovers from these roll creations, so the coins would be sold as individual pieces. 

There may also be a market for the dealer for particular pieces being sought for collectors that collect one series, but not another that are packaged together in these sets.  So, a number of sets could be broken apart to meet such a demand, while again, the leftovers are sold separately for those who may collect these other series.

The most likely reason, however, is probably the dealer buys a number of sets to try to find "superb" examples to send to a TPG (Third Party Grader) in hopes of obtaining a top grade for the coin.  Such coins would sell for premiums far beyond the cost of the sets.  The leftovers would then, again, be sold individually raw for those who may be seeking such coins for their collections.

The individually removed coins would be significantly worth more only if they are of superb quality.  In such case, I would believe that the dealer would have already done what I previously suggested with a TPG for his own profit.  The individual coins you see at the dealers may only be "gem" quality (that is to say mid-grade quality) which would not necessarily command any significant premium value over the mint's retail cost.

If you are purchasing these for a keepsake for your posterity, I would personally continue with the mint subscriptions.  If you are hoping that these coins will one day provide some value addition to their inheritance, then I would need to inform you that these modern coins are not a very good investment (even for their silver content).  Coins are a high risk investment, and true investment quality rarities are rarely found in modern coin offerings.

I hope this helps you, and welcome to the forum.  If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

That looks like the neck point, correct?  That would possibly be 1923P VAM-1DD.  Nice find!!

57 minutes ago, SSGRENFRO said:

the Denver 3.1 small date

Yes, the copper alloy cents 1982-D that weigh 3.11 grams (or thereabouts).  There are plenty of 1982-D small date copper-plated zinc coins (2.5 grams), however.

In 1982, the U.S. Mint changed the composition of the one cent from a copper alloy weighing 3.11 grams to a copper-plated zinc, which weighs 2.5 grams.  This, along with a variety in the fonts used for the date, resulted in seven known varieties for the 1982 U.S. Once Cent coin:

Copper alloy (3.11 grams):  1982 large date, 1982 small date, 1982-D large date

Copper-plated Zinc (2.5 grams):  1982 large date, 1982 small date, 1982-D large date, 1982-D small date

Of these, the 1982 small date of each composition carry the higher premium.  The copper-plated zinc variety carries the higher premium of the two.  Relatively speaking, the premiums are rather small considering that a gem mint state coin (MS-65 grade) would value at between 50 cents and $1.

Modern cents for the most part do not generally have a high value (especially in circulated conditions).  That includes the 1982 large and small  date cents, though the premiums stated before do climb considerably as the grade increases.  However, this is true of both the 1982 and 1983 issues as there were no uncirculated Mint Sets issued by the U.S. Mint in these years.  So, mint state coins of these years are a bit tougher to come by in high grade as opposed to other modern years that do have Mint Sets available.

I hope you find this hobby and field of study to be enjoyable, relaxing and rewarding!

On 12/5/2018 at 7:28 PM, thedeadpoint said:

As a materials engineer and a coin collector, I've never ever heard of that effect and politely point out that it's probably wrong. Can you point me to some literature that shows that?

it's become quite a busy end of week here.  Right off the top of my head I can't think of anything in the library to grab for you real quick.  A lot of stuff has been internet interaction over the decades (it's sad how much has literally fallen of the net...not necessarily related to this current topic, but some interesting stuff, nonetheless) so I'm not sure if I'll be able to pull some of it through search that quickly.

But, the gist of it has to deal with the same concept as honing our chef's knives.  The process of sharpening the knife actually removes metal from the blade.  This process, however, is a lot more "crude" compared to the day to day use of the blade.  More pressure, different materials, and the time consumed in the process are different between honing, day to day use, and sharpening.

In day to day use, the knife eventually becomes dull.  During this period, the knife is put under different circumstances in which there are variable amounts of pressure applied, but it is a general rubbing of the the blade against generally softer substances.  Over a period of time, the metal begins to form/bend/flow in the direction of this applied pressure.  Metal itself is not lost...it is simply "squished" thus dulling the blade.

So, we therefore hone the knife.  Applying short periods of light pressure in order to form the metal back into the "sharp" position again (realigning the edges).  As with the day to day use, there is generally no loss of metal involved.  It is when you sharpen the blade that you are intentionally removing metal in order to form a new edge to the blade.

I suggest (as I have also seen others in the past) this is the same with normal "wear" to the metal of the coin.  The metal is being "squished"/formed/flowed/moved....not removed.  It is not until there is damage (whether intentional or not) that we experience the actual removal of the metal.  This can occur through abrasive cleaning, whizzing, , a series of oxidation followed by removal or conservation (as was routinely done in the "good old days"), environmental damage, etc.

Your insight in the matter is greatly appreciated!

$18

3 hours ago, thedeadpoint said:

 

However, it doesn't help when there is significant wear on the coin.

It does definitely become much harder when the coin becomes worn.  However, we must remember that normal circulation wear does not remove any metal content from the coin so much as it simply flows the metal (spreads it out).  Thus, a worn coin will have it's devices smoothed out and apparent extra thickness and flatness as the metal spreads.

Without being able to examine a number of MDD coins made from the same dies (or even an exact same coin) at different stages of wear, it is not possible to map the progression of the effects of wear for such coins.  However, knowing the effects of wear on a normal coin's devices, I would think it would become easier to identify MDD in such cases.

I would assume that the MDD would appear more like die deterioration the more wear occurs on the coin until the initial strike on tthe coin is no longer evident.  But, I'm glad that my explanation was able to help in some way.

My 10 year old daughter has become interested in die doubling and I have been finding the need to explain things in a very over-simplified manner to her.  I have found, however, that in a lot of cases, actually seeing examples and comparisons has the largest impact in understanding.

PMD (post mint damage) will not necessarily make your coin worthless, but it is damage nonetheless and will lower the value depending on the type and extent of the damage.  There are some cases, however, (like with trade dollars), where damage (such as "chop marks") can find a niche of collectors that value it for its historical value, so long as it is contained and does not "mutilate" the specimen.

That said, there are those who collect stamped cents as a curiosity, but no real value added.

Half the battle in identifying a doubled die is understanding the process by which the die is created.  A good read to start off with would be the How Dies Are Made page on John Wexler's site.

To over-simplify it, the die is doubled when the raised image is pressed into the die and it shifts slightly.  That would be like pushing a figuring into forming foam andit shifts or you pull it out and push it in again, but not exactly in the same position.  The image will be in there twice, and at the same level.  S, when you fill it, all of the devices of the image will be the same height, yet somewhat distinct.

The double strike, on the other hand, happens when the die strikes the planchet twice, but not necessarily in the same position for whatever reason.  The first image that was struck into the coin gets squiched down and is not the same level as the second struck image.  When viewing this, the image is what we call "shelf-like" (like looking directly downward at the steps of stairs).  The second image would appear like a shadow or a mirage image does on water.  It is apparent that it is there, but it does not stand out like the rest of the devices.

Taking a look on the internet at images of various known doubled dies may help you to get the feel of what it should look like.  Hope that helps a bit.  And if you are not exactly sure, feel free to post photos and ask!

$22

Comparing the coins that are up on eBay atm, it would appear to be a die clash.  I personally would not pay the kind of premium being sought for it.  I am also seeing "production totals" ranging from 375 to 500 only minted!!!! on some of those listings...  Um...I don't think so.  I've read that there were many more minted after that initial release on his birthday.  You would want to check and make sure how many were actually minted to determine any rarity.  And I am seeing many more than "just a few" of these clashes being offered.  As more of these pence are checked over, I am sure many more will spring up in the wild and become more affordably available.

Best thing is to simply figure if it is something you truly want in your collection.  And determine what you are personally willing to pay for it knowing that more are likely to appear over time.  If you are thinking of trying to turn a quick buck...I would highly encourage you consider otherwise.

The edge lettering is placed on the planchet using a castaing machine.  When it is run through the machine, there is no determination of which side will be the obverse and which the reverse (just as when the planchet is placed between the dies and minted).  So, there is no real right or wrong way for the lettering to be placed on a coin.  So long as the lettering is there (and in the right order), then it is the way it was intended to be.

Here is a short youtube video that gives a very brief history/overview of edge lettering.

Very nice off-centered strike there!  Yes, the dime has some value.  There is really no way of determining the value for it though until you start to receive some offers for it.  I would say you could possibly get around $5-$7 for it.

I'll give you $4 for it!

$15

Wow!  I almost had to belate this:

Hope you had a wonderful 72nd!!

$10

Just pulled an impaired DCAM Bicentennial Kennedy (clad) proof from a roll last night.  It took my daughters a few minutes to figure out what was so special about it.  They didn't know such things could end up in circulation.

If I am not mistaken, Ecuador has not minted its own CLT coinage for the past 15 years?  There are countries today that do not have currently minted coins, and they "buy" current CLT from other countries.  The U.S. regularly exports current coinage to many of these countries (while not releasing them within our own country).  Since our Mint Directors have been quite the lazy bums these past several decades, it's impossible to know how many to which countries these sales have been conducted each year simply through the annual reports.  I've even noticed that the halves and dollars are no longer even itemized in the budget reports alongside the other denominations.  But, as people travel to and from these various countries that we send coin to, we'll start seeing more and more of them in our rolls.

$8

40 minutes ago, thedeadpoint said:

Who is pierre??!

Don't ask....and Ikaros...shame on you!!  That opens up way too many cans of different possible worms....let's just leave the reference to hockey.

And speaking of Canadians...I got a nice 1979 Canadian cent today in change.

$4

I'll throw in $15 on this one!

It says she hasn't been on for a few years...but you never know...maybe she's been visiting in guest stealth mode!

Happy BDay Tiffi!