thelawnet

Honestly, I do not really know the market value of these notes. As I mentioned earlier, a few years back , I was offered by a local Singapore dealer at S$300 per piece in Fine or VF condition. In my opinion, these notes are not popular among serious Singapore collectors. It's just a coincidence that the US town and bank bear the same name as Singapore. It would be a popular note if it originates from Singapore such as early banknotes from various banks.

But of course there are plenty of US collectors of obsolete banks who would be interested in these notes.

You'd likely get more info over at forums.collectors.com on this.

Here's some results from ha.com on past sales of these:

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...7379&src=pr

Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $2 Dec. 25, 1837 G4

Notes on this bank are seldom seen. This example has nice edges and paper for the grade. The ghost town of Singapore has been covered up by the shifting sand dunes of Lake Michigan. Fine.

$345 21/9/2008

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...2229&src=pr

Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $3 Dec. 30, 1837

$373.75

8/7/2008

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1501&src=pr

Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $1 Dec. 25, 1837 G2 Bowen 1

A nice circulated signed and issued example from this very scarce bank. Fine-Very Fine.

21/9/2002

$143.75

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1502&src=pr

Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $2 Dec. 25, 1837 G4 Bowen 2

A lovely note which is the Haxby plate example. About Uncirculated.

19/9/2002

$254.50

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1503&src=pr

Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $3 Dec. 25, 1837 G6 Bowen 3

A very attractive $3 note which is the Haxby plate example. Very Fine.

19/9/2002

$333.50

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1504&src=pr

Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $5 Dec. 25, 1837 G8 Bowen 4

A nice evenly circulated singed and issued example. Fine-Very Fine.

19/9/2002

$143.75

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1486&src=pr

Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $5 Dec. 25, 1837 G8 Bowen 4

10/1/2002

A very scarce note from this long abandoned community. Fine, one corner tip off.

$207

This Spink Auction contained the collection of two big collectors, thus it has a lot of good quality pieces. The prices seems a bit soft. It could be due to the overall world economy especially when the stock market are not doing well. I can only say that one big collector is buy most of the good stuff. The fact is that we won't we seeing them for a long time since they are lock-up in collections.

 

The 1925 $5 sold at S$4400 is only a good very fine. Still I do not see an AU or better in any Spink Auction so far. What would the price be for a 1925 $5 in original AU - UNC condition. S$50,000 or S$100,000.

Why not sell it and see?

From the auction I didn't see much going to that level, even unique notes, seems like quite a premium for an AU

It's worth a look through the realised prices now the auction is over

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...7&saletype=

All I can say is I am happy not to be collecting this stuff. Soooooooo expensive.

The 1925 $5 (as above) sold for S$4400

I'm interested in buying one of the following for my personal collection. Can anyone here help me out?

 

50 ringgit (US$14.95), 2007. 20,000 special sets issued December 26, 2007 for RM60, and at face w/o packaging starting January 30, 2008. Green-blue. Portrait of the first king, Tuanku Abdul Rahman ibni Tuanku Muhammad at right, national flower hibiscus at center, songket weaving patterns in background and edges, signature (Tan Sri Dr. Zeti Akhtar Aziz, GABENOR). Malaysia’s first prime minister, Tunku Abdul Rahman Putra Al-Haj declaring independence, oil palm trees, microbiology technology, and 50th anniversary logo on back (logo will appear only on first 50 million notes). Security features include watermark portrait and 50 as electrotype watermark, fluorescent windowed security thread with repeating BNM RM50 (also as microtext), songket design as registration device, 50 as latent image, holographic stripe with 50 and hibiscus flower. Printer: Gieseke & Devrient (w/o imprint). 145 x 69 mm.

I'm not sure if you want the folder, but there are plenty on ebay without folder, and some with:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?s...ntrypage=search

Looks like $25 is a fair price for notes w/o folder, judging by completed auction results, which is a little over face but not too bad

Some love to keep specimen notes. In my opinion, my advice is to avoid them totally. One fine day, your $10,000 specimen note which you fought very hard during a reputable international auction, may only worth $10. Time is money. You probably have kept it for 20 years. So what happen ? After 20 years, someone quietly channel out 100,000 pieces of similar specimen note to various dealers, auction houses, internet auction. When you realised it, it has already flooded the market. It is now worth $10 and even then nobody want it for their collection. Avoid specimen notes.

Yeah I do worry about this.

The 1948/1949 essay specimens I bought sold for $400, but at the previous auction they sold for $750, perhaps because nobody had seen them before.

Who knows how many more exist?

That said, the TDLR numbered specimens as above, are slightly more appealing because they say "SPECIMEN No. 16", and there are clearly a limited number in existence, because they are individually numbered.

That's oval shape printer chop on the specimen note below ( the red chops appear on the upper left and lower right corner ). In this note, I believe the printer is Thomas De La Rue ( TDLR ).

Yeah.

There are some notes on ebay at the moment:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?s...;sass=yacobe123

With the overprint 'SPECIMEN', yet to me they just look like issued notes that someone has stamped 'SPECIMEN' over.

The one sold at SPINK yesterday

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...8&saletype=

had serial

5A00000

25A00000

which is as you'd expect, zero serial number, first letter prefix; the ones on ebay have normal serial numbers - the 100 in particular has a three-letter serial, which I believe occurred later, after they'd worked through A-Z and AA-ZZ.

Not one of the notes has a zero or special serial (though the 1958, 1968, 1975, 1977, 1982, 1992, notes; i.e. those other than the TDLR notes, have 'X' prefixes, i.e. replacement note).

Are they all just faked?

I can't see how they have any collector's appeal, as against those with zero serials.

Were you the one who won the specimen notes book from HRHammer earlier. I think it went for 5k USD. It's nice to keep and invest in printer specimen ( those with the printer chop ). They are great investment. Without the printer chop, it was a miserable investment. I learnt a painful way when I bought them as early as late 1980. I sold them off in 2004 make a big loss. No more specimen notes for me even those with printer chops.

Hmm?

I bought some 1948 and 1949 essay specimens:

Not sure what you mean about printer chops?

The early Indonesian notes should be a good investment if there are not too many of them around. Collect them when they are still cheap. If they are really rare or scarce, they should rise in value over the years.

It is hard to find info on scarceness.

I just received an invoice for $3105 from HR Harmer for unissued Essay Specimens that I purchased in their sale. They are not the most attractive of issues, but are quite historic, because they would have been issued by Indonesia upon independence except that the peace conference with The Netherlands in 1949 brokered that De Javasche Bank would remain as the central bank.

I went to look at the Indonesian notes in the London Spink auction (I am not sure why they were not consigned to Singapore). They had a beautiful unissued specimen, the estimate was only £200-£300. I was prepared to go to £400-£450.

This is the face:

It is a large size note with a nice unique Wayang scene on the reverse. It had undeclared surface damage which I saw on inspection. It was also miscatalogued as the less desirable (issued) 1000 rupiah , so I did not raise it with them, as I was hoping that the misdescription would keep the price down.

Unfortunately it went for £800 (=£960 with premium), which wasn't a price I was willing to go to, mainly because I don't have the context to justify that price - previous auction sales, or data on the number of notes that survive (the note was numbered 'Specimen 25', but exactly how many survive is unclear).

I noticed that the preceding Indian notes were attracting high bids (several thousands pounds) from Indian bidders, I believe that in a developing country like Indonesia, demand will only increase in the future.

What sort of prices were you paying in the mid 80s? I.e for something that is now $2000, what was the price then?

Indonesia 10000 Rupiah, 1998

There are various young ladies on the 'Soekarno' series of notes:

All cheap in UNC. grades

Scarcer are the regional versions of the same; i.e. Borneo/Riau/Irian Barat

Plus two 'Kartini' notes:

1952/1985:

I have a few of most of these, except for the regional ones.

Of course I have now found that there are watermark variations on the 10 rupiah , so I need to track that down as well:

Yes, they are expensive,rare and highly collectiable especially the high grade ones. And for this series, not many are in high grade. I only know of three pieces in the highest grades. Uncirculated. Mine is one of the three pieces. There is a countmark on the top edge but the note is uncirculated and in original condition. Most pieces are in VF or VF+. You will never lose out especially when you invest in those high grades ones. The market prices increases many folds as the years goes by. Unfortunately, the truth is that such notes usually selling very much higher than the market price. Unfortunate for buyers but fortunate for sellers.

 

The Spink Auction below should see some high quality Straits Settlements pieces from Steven Tan for sales. That's what I was told.

8014 Banknotes of South East Asia Singapore 05 Jul 2008 10:00

The catalogue is available.

http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/8014pages.pdf

There are a lot of Straits, Sarawak, Malaya and Borneo notes.

Including an XF one of this note.

The prices are huge......

It makes me wonder about investment notes.

The Netherlands Indies notes are also highly priced, but Indonesia notes are still cheap. I am hoping improving economics will make my collection more valuable. You can still buy extremely rare (five pieces in existence) notes for around US$3,000. Merely scarce notes are only priced at $100 or so.

How much did you pay for your notes originally see323, and when did you buy them?

Yes, they are expensive,rare and highly collectiable especially the high grade ones. And for this series, not many are in high grade. I only know of three pieces in the highest grades. Uncirculated. Mine is one of the three pieces. There is a countmark on the top edge but the note is uncirculated and in original condition. Most pieces are in VF or VF+. You will never lose out especially when you invest in those high grades ones. The market prices increases many folds as the years goes by. Unfortunately, the truth is that such notes usually selling very much higher than the market price. Unfortunate for buyers but fortunate for sellers.

It does depend on the country of issue. Some rare notes do not sell, but anything from Singapore, Malaya, etc., seems to sell very well.

The Spink Auction below should see some high quality Straits Settlements pieces from Steven Tan for sales. That's what I was told.

8014 Banknotes of South East Asia Singapore 05 Jul 2008 10:00

Of course Singapore is probably not the best place to buy South East Asian money, if you want to buy at a low price.

Here's a sale in USA of Indonesian money in 2005:

http://www.stacksarchive.com/viewcat.php?a...;headinglevel=3

A set of Irian Barat 5rp, 10rp, and 100rp (all 3 notes in one lot) sold for $75, and a set of 4 * 100rp notes in condition from F+ to UNC sold for only $60.

The previous year in Singapore, a note in only F+ condition sold for more money - $70

http://mavininternational.com/auction0411/CAT0801.HTM

The 100rp currently fetches $500 and up on ebay in UNC condition.

If you can buy notes away from the home market you may find less collector interest and hopefully a lower price.

Mark, You should be able to get one this year in the coming Spink Auction, Singapore.

Last one sold for S$4200 (four times estimate), and only VF!

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...2&saletype=

Educate yourself about the situation in Northern Ireland, you know, the fighting that has gone on there for over 360+ years and you will understand. Your comment shows lack of any knowledge of the place.

I am British and have been to Ulster. The implication from your post was that it was some kind of permanent warzone. It is certainly not 360 years of consuming civil war.

People resent the common suggestion that it's just a place of bombs and terror.

People there have long defaced banknotes that they perceive of as being issued by their enemies, Protestant or Catholic. Some notes, notably National Bank or Bank of Ireland were defaced by Protestants because they were "Catholic" whilst Catholics defaced Ulster and Northern Bank notes because they were perceived of as "Protestant". Because of pen marks and propaganda scribbled on notes, some notes are very rare in undefaced condition.

Do you have any references as to the extent of political graffiti on banknotes?

I don't know the typical circulation of banknotes, but I would imagine much would circulate within defined areas which would be in most cases religiously homogeneous. Are there specific notes that failed particularly?

Several years ago I sold my whole Irish collection of banknotes, from 1910's to 1990's to a collector for something like $1000 or similar, I had large size square Pound notes, large denomination Northern Ireland banks etc. I kick myself for ever selling that collection, I had very nice stuff, several early uncirculated or EF notes etc. Now I am collecting Ireland again, and am paying outrageous prices for very nice material. Some of the NI banks have note issues that are very very rare when they are unmarked or defaced by ink marks etc. because of the political situation there.

I doubt the political situation has anything to do with it, it's not like Iraq with bombs falling on banks.

Just lack of supply, excess demand

Yes, they ( 1953- 1961 ) are not rare at all but getting more and more difficult to find original uncirculated condition. Only the Straits Settlements series (1898-1935) are rarer especially in high grade condition.

I guess the issue is there are many more collectors than there were in the past.

I buy a lot on ebay, and certain notes are in very high demand. I personally ONLY buy Indonesia money, but I check the past purchases of the other bidders, and they have varied tastes.

Once a note is sold, it is 90% gone forever. Most collections probably won't ever be sold. So essentially that money is gone from availability. Most owners have no financial need to sell their money. So they won't

And with high demand, eventually so much stuff is locked away in private collections, that the notes acquire scarcity and a high price.

BTW, it's fun to note how quickly a collector grows to accept high prices. My first notes were under $1. Now I will pay up to about $150 for a single note - providing that is a fair price for the scarcity of the note.

I'm not really up to spending $500-$1000 on notes yet though.

I am also filling up fast on some super rare 1953-61 Malaya British Borneo banknotes.

Don't think they are rare at all. Logically it shouldn't be. It's just that there is high demand from all the countries where it was used. Plus the British/Queen collection gives it international appeal.

Hence high prices relative to scarcity.