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thelawnet

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  1. Regarding the 50 Gulden note, the issue of this was started probably in January 1926, van Rossem/Trip. The first note I found is 4 January 1926, prefix FH. It's likely that there are some notes before this, this is just the earliest I found. There was a big issue in January 1926, from at least 4th to 20th January, inclusive. The next issue is from 1st July 1926, although it's possible the issue started in June, and also that there might be an issue in between. This was also van Rossem/Trip. It continued until at least 12th July. After that I find March 1927, also van Rossem/Trip, plus July 1927 and March 1928 also. Michielsen/Trip starts in January 1929, ending on 31st January. The second Michielsen/Trip issue starts 17th April 1929, continuing till at least 29th April, but maybe until May. Praasterink/Wichers begins I think 3rd August 1929, but maybe one or two days earlier. This issue continued for about 2 weeks. There was another issue in November 1929, then April and August 1930. 50 Gulden Wayang seems to begin 19th April 1938 (only one signature type). But maybe a little earlier - is that prefix KM in your picture? Notes were issued from then through until 4th June 1938. The second and final 50 Gulden Wayang issue was 11th through 14th May 1939, prefixes MI, MJ, MK, ML. It's quite possible it continues after that though.
  2. 1734 what? I assume duit, but there are many different types. For this date at least three: Zeeland, Holland and Friesland. They are documented in various books. Here's a bibliography for the Indies: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,2680.0.html Scholten is the most accessible guide. Basically the duits are generally worth between $1 and $10, depending on date, in worn conditions. If you have a true mint state it example it could sell for $50-$100. The silver and gold proofs are worth more. And some VOC coins (not duits) are worth tens of thousands of dollars. Here are some duit threads: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,3114.0.html http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,3136.0.html http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1265.0.html
  3. It sold. If it didn't reach reserve it would say unsold.
  4. Preliminary data on 100 gulden Coen note: Issue dates: Ligthart/Trip (Scarcest): Issue Dates: 2nd, 3rd, probably 4th, 5th November 1925, possibly other dates between 6th November and 11th November 1925, possibly also earlier dates. At least 4 issues of 9,999 notes, but could be as many as 16. Most likely somewhere in the middle. Van Rossem/Trip (Most common) Issue Dates: November 1925, March 1927, July 1927, January-February 1928. Other dates may also exist. At least 104 issues of 9,999 notes. Could be up to 111 issues. Praasterink/Wichers Issue Dates: November 1929, April-May 1930, August 1930, October 1930. Other dates may also exist. At least 36 issues. Possibly up to 45. Issues by year: 1925: 25+ (could be up to 50) 1926: probably zero 1927: 36+ (up to 65) 1928: 23+ (up to 39) 1929: 10+ (up to 13) 1930: 21+ (up to 33)
  5. Does this make any sense? Item: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6235998 Sold for $250 + 17.5% premium = $293.75 Now up on ebay, 2 weeks later, for $275 (buy it now) or best offer. From which will come ebay's fees, etc. http://cgi.ebay.com/Netherlands-Indies-De-...tem190297847884 Is there something bad going on here?
  6. Anyone following the current banknote auction? http://www.spink.com/asp/cataloguesearch.asp I have to say I am not impressed with them. I was interested in two lots: http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...4&saletype= Sale 9010 Lot 681 Bank Indonesia a group of specimens comprising 5 rupiah, orangutan, 25 rupiah, rhinocerous, 50 rupiah, crocodile, 100 rupiah, squirrel, 500 rupiah, tiger, and 1000 rupiah, elephant, all ND (1957) (Pick 49, B50, 50, 51, 52, 53) almost uncirculated, the 25 rupiah very rare and only issued for three days (6) Estimate £ 400-500 and http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...0&saletype= Sale 9010 Lot 682 † Bank Indonesia, specimen 5000 rupiah, ND (1957), purple and multicoloured, buffalo at left, reverse green, ships (P 54A), red SPECIMEN overprint, perforated, mounting traces, good extremely fine and rare Estimate £ 500-1,000 I went to Spink once, they are still living in the 19th Century. So when the bidding for lot 681 opened at £1300, can I say I was not impressed. Evidently they had a proxy bid at that level, making a mockery of their £400-£500 estimate. If they had adequate systems to reflect the real prices being bid in advance, I wouldn't have wasted my time on this auction. The estimate was ludicrously low. The 25 rupiah is worth at least $700, the 500 in excess of $400, and the other 4 maybe $200 each. 682 opened at £700 and closed at £1400, which is not so bad, but still I can't help thinking they're wasting people's time. I visited them last year and they did the same thing, gross underestimates on the pricing. Pointless. I was actually quite surprised with the high prices. I have a standing offer from a dealer to sell the 5000 rupiah at $1900. The prices for lot 681 might reflect the fact that the 25 rupiah at least is a proof rather than a specimen, and this might extend to the other lots as well (Spink are shocking at a cataloguing their items - I can buy a banknote for $3 on ebay and it comes with obverse and reverse scans. They are selling something for 1000 times as much and they only include a face scan of ONE of the six notes, and don't even bother to describe the other notes. Money for old rope.)
  7. Not sure I agree with that. Some notes are rare in any condition. Some are simply condition rarities - i.e. well-circulated VF examples are common, but uncirculated ones are scarce and can be 20 times more expensive. An ambitious collector would of course want the uncirculated one This note is rare in any condition (although the statement that only six exist seems unlikely given the A/1 29024 serial), and I don't see the wear as significant. It's a very attractive piece that any collector would want to own. I would seriously seek a professional appraisal of it to get an idea of its value.
  8. Sorry, that's insane. $5 million? It's worth perhaps 1% of that price. And that's assuming it's genuine. Contact Spink and get it appraised and put up for auction. Nobody is going to fly to Malaysia with any amount of CASH for a note that you haven't even put an image up of. Otherwise if you want the money now, contact some dealers.
  9. Edit: I read the numbers wrongly.
  10. Some points: * each denomination of note has a two letter serial prefix. This started in 1864 (Frame Series). The prefixes run consecutively, but Q is not used. So if AP was issued, the next was AR, then AS, AT, AU, AV, AW, AX, AY, AZ, BA, etc. * after issuing ZZ, they then issued AA. * the serial prefixes continue unbroken in consecutive order from 1864 to 1939 * it is unlikely that they started each note with AA, because if you consider that prefix NH for 500 gulden was issued on 1/2/1916 and ON in 27/4/1939 while for 1000 gulden ME was issued on 1/5/1897 and NL on 28/4/1939, they moved through less than 50 prefixes in 42 years, so I do not think it is possible that they could have made it from AA to ME in the preceding 33 years. That said, the prefixes of the larger notes are similar - Coen 200 g is from RK, 300 g is from OS, 500 g is from NX and 1000 g is from MV. Given that the larger denominations would have had fewer issues, it is likely that they all started on the same prefix. My guess is that all denominations started with MA on first issue in 1864. But it could be something else. * Because there are only 6.25 million combinations from AA 1 to ZZ 9999, notes with duplicate serials can definitely be found - but they would be issued on different dates * For the smaller denominations you can even find notes of the same series with the same serial. E.g., Wayang 5 gulden IX was issued 21/11/1934, and IX was again issued some time between 3/12/1936 and 8/12/1936 * On the other hand, the rarer denominations, i.e. 200, 300, 500 and 1000 gulden definitely only have one of each serial prefix. As for 100 gulden, I suspect that exactly one of each prefix was issued. I base this on the fact that the first prefix I have, XR was issued in 1908 and the last Wayang prefix I have found is LZ in 1939. If they started with MA, it is likely that notes MA->XR were issued between 1864 and 1908 (and not MA->ZZ, AA->XR, that would be too much money). 50 gulden turns out to be not really significantly more common than 100 gulden, the last note I've seen is ML, and the first, in 1916, BS. * the notes of De Javasche Bank have 4 digit serial numbers, running 1 to 9999 for each and every prefix. But at some point they decided to add a 0 before the serial number. In the 1920s they even used two preceding zeroes. Regardless of the 1 or 2 leading zeroes, only four numbers are actually significant. * The notes were shipped from Haarlem blank, and completed in batches of 9999 in Batavia. * On each day zero or more batches of 9999 would be issued for each denomination. Dated 22 January 1935 I have found notes of prefix PG and PM. If you convert the serial prefix to a number, then that is 382 and 388. Prefixes 383-387 (PH - PL) would also have been issued on that date. Dated 2/2/1935 I've found UK, and 5/2/1935 VD. VD is equivalent to prefix 504, so between 22/1/1935 and 5/2/1935 AT LEAST 122 batches of 9,999 notes were issued. This is 1,219,878 notes, or 6.6 million gulden. * Regarding the control numbers, these go up in ones according to the date, denomination and prefix. Here are the date I have: Denomination Issue Date Serial letters Code 300 30/04/1901 OL 5011 5 31/10/1901 YM 10853 100 13/04/1908 XR 7751 100 14/04/1908 XS 7756 5 22/05/1913 RN 8357 10 16/08/1913 UI 8861 5 26/09/1913 VS 9229 10 21/10/1913 WO 9285 200 08/01/1916 PH 9152 500 01/02/1916 NH 9125 50 03/06/1916 BS 9404 500 29/12/1917 NI 9761 100 03/01/1919 ZF 10497 500 03/01/1919 NL 10742 1000 03/07/1919 MR 11510 500 06/07/1919 NT 11505 200 09/09/1919 PU 11488 20 16/01/1920 FK 10714 25 01/04/1920 IE 10988 10 12/06/1920 HH 11040 10 02/09/1920 IU 11184 5 11/09/1920 IJ 11174 50 05/10/1920 CS 11170 5 20/10/1920 JS 11238 25 03/12/1920 LB 11446 10 09/12/1920 KN 11358 100 10/12/1920 BN 11825 25 15/12/1920 LL 11892 100 11/02/1921 BZ 11836 100 02/05/1921 CF 11842 50 10/08/1922 EN 11872 200 10/08/1922 PX 11914 200 15/08/1922 RB 11918 200 16/08/1922 RC 11919 10 13/03/1923 SO 12271 5 17/01/1924 GS 12543 5 08/09/1924 OJ 12858 100 02/11/1925 CO 12903 100 03/11/1925 CP 12904 200 04/11/1925 RK 12936 100 05/11/1925 CS 12906 200 11/11/1925 RR 12942 100 12/11/1925 CY 12912 100 16/11/1925 DB 12915 200 27/11/1925 SF 13183 25 05/12/1925 MC 12943 25 29/12/1925 MV 12966 500 06/01/1926 NX 13102 500 07/01/1926 NY 13187 50 08/01/1926 FL 12985 300 08/01/1926 OS 13191 500 08/01/1926 NZ 13150 500 09/01/1926 OA 13210 25 13/01/1926 NH 12978 50 16/01/1926 FT 12992 50 20/01/1926 FW 12995 1000 01/07/1926 NC 13287 200 02/07/1926 SN 13264 500 02/07/1926 OD 13268 1000 02/07/1926 ND 13296 50 05/03/1927 GY 13514 100 23/03/1927 EP 13523 25 01/07/1927 RD 14246 100 04/07/1927 ET 13649 25 12/07/1927 RM 14336 100 25/07/1927 FL 13903 100 30/07/1927 FR 13987 10 27/08/1927 LE 13871 10 01/10/1927 MW 13922 10 11/10/1927 PX 14106 10 11/10/1927 RF 14114 5 24/11/1927 GE 14036 10 03/01/1928 WL 14443 100 16/01/1928 GE 14243 100 17/01/1928 GF 14244 100 19/01/1928 GH 14251 100 21/01/1928 GK 14253 100 24/01/1928 GM 14253 100 25/01/1928 GN 14536 100 30/01/1928 GS 14340 25 27/03/1928 SP 14665 50 15/01/1929 IJ 14793 25 17/01/1929 TL 14744 25 22/01/1929 TP 14748 25 25/01/1929 TT 14782 25 29/01/1929 TW 14785 25 07/02/1929 UC 14791 10 23/02/1929 BZ 14814 25 12/03/1929 UL 14831 25 19/03/1929 US 14845 25 26/03/1929 UY 14851 5 01/04/1929 VB 14871 25 20/04/1929 VS 14932 50 24/04/1929 IX 14920 10 15/07/1929 EG 15692 10 03/08/1929 EY 15022 50 03/08/1929 JF 15004 50 08/08/1929 JJ 15008 50 13/08/1929 JN 15050 50 14/08/1929 JO 15051 10 09/09/1929 GD 15078 100 02/11/1929 HE 15218 100 05/11/1929 HG 15220 25 06/11/1929 XJ 15098 25 11/11/1929 XN 15102 25 18/11/1929 XU 15173 50 21/11/1929 JT 15093 50 26/11/1929 JX 15224 25 08/01/1930 YF 15231 25 10/01/1930 YH 15313 25 11/01/1930 YI 15314 5 22/04/1930 GP 15536 5 22/04/1930 GU 15540 5 23/04/1930 HE 15550 5 24/04/1930 HG 15552 5 25/04/1930 HS 15563 100 25/04/1930 HS 15485 5 26/04/1930 IA 15571 25 30/04/1930 ZV 15671 100 03/05/1930 HZ 15662 25 13/08/1930 AA 15784 500 16/08/1930 OF 15775 500 18/08/1930 OG 15864 500 19/08/1930 OH 15885 10 26/08/1930 PP 15899 50 28/08/1930 KL 15870 25 30/08/1930 AP 15962 200 15/10/1930 SO 15954 200 16/10/1930 SP 16042 200 17/10/1930 SR 16043 25 23/10/1930 AY 16053 25 25/10/1930 BA 16055 5 15/11/1930 VM 16160 5 15/01/1931 YR 16279 10 16/01/1931 VI 16312 25 19/01/1931 BW 16256 25 20/01/1931 BX 16299 5 20/01/1931 AM 16345 10 14/02/1931 VY 16364 25 09/03/1931 CC 16349 5 27/03/1931 DA 16462 5 27/03/1931 DC 16464 As you can see the numbers increase over time. Also the numbers are unique to the combination of serial prefix and denomination. That said, although the numbers seem to go up in 1s for the same denomination (e.g., 25 gulden AY above is 16053, and 25 gulden BA is 16055, therefore 25 gulden AZ would be 16054) for some reason it seems like they perhaps had different numbers allocated to different denominations. I don't understand why the security numbers do not simply increment across all series. But they do not. All I can say is that the bank officials would have recorded the correct codes for each prefix/denomination combination and if somebody created a fake not where the security code was not correct for the prefix, it would be identified. One thing with my data above is that there are probably some errors in the security codes, they are hard to read and I probably made one or two mistakes.
  11. OG is 15864. I need to find Coen OB, OC, and OE, plus find NU, NV, NW (which could be Coen-Mercurius as well) to have the complete list of dates of issue of the Coen 500 gulden notes. OB and OC would be 1926, OE is either 1926, 1929 or 1930. 1929 is listed as a date in KUKI, but I think it is unlikely. Here are my estimates for total issued for 100 gulden and above: (Each issue is 9999 notes) 100 gulden: Coen series (all): between 151 and 168 issues Each signature: Ligthart/Trip: Minimum 4 issues, maximum 17 van Rossem/Trip: Minimum 104 issues, maximum 113 Praasterink/Wichers: Minimum 34 issues, maximum 46 Wayang (all Waveren/Wichers): At least 78 issues 200 gulden: Coen (all): between 32 and 41 issues Ligthart/Trip: between 1 and 13 issues van Rossem/Trip: 23 to 29 issues Praasterink/Wichers: 3 or 4 issues Wayang at least 5 issues 300 gulden: at least 1 issue 500 gulden: Coen (all): 11 to 14 issues van Rossem/Trip: 8 to 11 issues Praasterink/Wichers: 3 or 4 issues Wayang: at least 6 issues 1000 gulden: Coen (all): 9 to 14 issues van Rossem/Trip: 9 to 14 issues Praasterink/Wichers: zero to two issues (I need to find out the issue dates of series NE and NF) Wayang: at least six issues Based on these data, all the KUKi prices for the Praasterink/Wichers signature combination are too low.
  12. I think it is 15885. The number should definitely be higher. I still don't really understand the control numbers completely. They are also quite hard to read!
  13. Thanks, I have updated my list. I have quite a lot of data now. E.g., 500 Gulden: Coen-Mercurius 06/07/1919 NT van den Berg Coen 07/01/1926 NY van Rossem Coen 02/07/1926 OD van Rossem Coen 16/08/1930 OF Praasterink Coen 18/08/1930 OG Praasterink Coen 19/08/1930 OH Praasterink Wayang 02/06/1938 OI van Waveren Wayang 04/06/1938 OL van Waveren Wayang 04/06/1938 OL van Waveren Wayang 27/04/1939 ON van Waveren So there were at least six series of Coen in 1926 (59,994 notes), and a maximum of 4 series of Coen in 1930 (maybe only 3, depends when OE was issued). But are you sure about the code of 500 gulden OH? Please see note OG http://www.javaauction.info/gambar.php?mod...l&nomor=929 This is code 15864 I think OH should be 15865, or it could be a larger number. It should not be less than 15864.
  14. I am conducting a census of Netherlands Indies notes. Please contact me if you have any of the following: Any De Javasche Bank notes 1864-October 1925 5 gulden: Coen notes issued before 21 November 1927, between 13 December 1927 and 22 April 1930, or after 27 March 1931 Wayang notes issued: on or before 21 November 1934 (prefix IW or earlier) between 5 June 1937 and 4 October 1937 (prefix UC to UN) between 3 May 1939 and 3 July 1939 (prefix VA to VS) on or after 16 August 1939 (prefix KT or later) 10 gulden Coen notes issued on or before 24/3/1927 (FX or earlier) Coen notes issued between 3/4/1928 and 23/2/1929 (ZH to BY) Coen notes issued on or after 12/3/1931 (WW to YT) Wayang notes issued on or before 3/10/1933 (WW to YT) Wayang notes issued 5/2/1934 to 20/9/1937 (JP to KH) Wayang notes issued 19/9/1938 to 28/7/1939 (BF, BG, BH or BI) Wayang notes issued on or after 31/8/1939 (NE or later) 25 gulden Coen notes serial prefix LM to MB Coen notes SR, SS, ST, SU, SV, SW, SX, SY Coen notes VT, VU, VV, VW notes CM to DH (Wayang or Coen) Wayang notes FN, FO, FP, FR, FS or FT Wayang notes IZ or later 50 gulden Coen (or Frame) EO to FK prefix Coen HW to IE Coen JC, JD, JE KM, KN, KO, KP, KR, KS (could be Wayang or Coen) Wayang MM or later 100 gulden prefix CG to CN (Coen-Mercurius or Coen) prefix CT, CU, CV, CW, CX prefix HC prefix IP to IW (Wayang or Coen) Wayang MA or later 200 gulden prefixes RD, RE, RF, RG, RH, RI, RJ (Coen or maybe before) prefixes RL, RM, RN, RO, RP (Coen) prefix SS or ST (either Coen or Wayang) prefix SZ or later (Wayang) 300 gulden prefix OM to OR (Coen or could be earlier) prefix OT or later (Coen) 500 gulden prefix NU, NV, NW (Coen or maybe earlier) prefix OE (Coen) prefixes OO and later (Wayang) 1000 gulden prefix MU (Coen or Coen-Mercurius) prefix NE or NF (Coen or Wayang) prefix NI, NJ, NK (Wayang) prefix NM or later (Wayang) I need the serial number including prefix, date of issue, denomination, and security code on the back (not for the Wayang series). Also the signatures if possible. ***updated 5 April 2009***
  15. But of course there are plenty of US collectors of obsolete banks who would be interested in these notes. You'd likely get more info over at forums.collectors.com on this. Here's some results from ha.com on past sales of these: http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...7379&src=pr Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $2 Dec. 25, 1837 G4 Notes on this bank are seldom seen. This example has nice edges and paper for the grade. The ghost town of Singapore has been covered up by the shifting sand dunes of Lake Michigan. Fine. $345 21/9/2008 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...2229&src=pr Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $3 Dec. 30, 1837 $373.75 8/7/2008 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1501&src=pr Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $1 Dec. 25, 1837 G2 Bowen 1 A nice circulated signed and issued example from this very scarce bank. Fine-Very Fine. 21/9/2002 $143.75 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1502&src=pr Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $2 Dec. 25, 1837 G4 Bowen 2 A lovely note which is the Haxby plate example. About Uncirculated. 19/9/2002 $254.50 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1503&src=pr Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $3 Dec. 25, 1837 G6 Bowen 3 A very attractive $3 note which is the Haxby plate example. Very Fine. 19/9/2002 $333.50 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1504&src=pr Singapore, MI- The Bank of Singapore $5 Dec. 25, 1837 G8 Bowen 4 A nice evenly circulated singed and issued example. Fine-Very Fine. 19/9/2002 $143.75 http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.ph...1486&src=pr Singapore, MI- Bank of Singapore $5 Dec. 25, 1837 G8 Bowen 4 10/1/2002 A very scarce note from this long abandoned community. Fine, one corner tip off. $207
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