extant4cell

I understand your logic there, and the last thing I want to do is to deffend this seller, because what he does is wrong. However, looking through his feedback - it's positive 100%. Even if he sells via second-chance-offer, he sells to genuine buyers on eBay, and if anyone after receiving the coin was not happy about this they would complained in the feedback big time!

The truth Alex is that I want this coin... just don't want to overpay. His eBay reputation is 100% and I think that cheating stops with shill bidding. I don't want to overpay and would like to make sure that the coin is genuine. It seams to me it is. Yes, seller is not very honest, but I am not collecting sellers If anyone among people I know has this (similar condition) coin for sale for a reasonable price, I would gladly consider buying from them... I appreciate your concern, and would probably report this seller to eBay if I still didn't consider the coin, because once his account is closed, bye-bye the coin...

Here a few more finds of this particular eagle die:

• 
  
• 
  

Sold by "Gorny & Mosch GmbH" in 2010 for $300

 

http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,42279/coins,1947/type,2357/auction,7/date,2010-03-10/lot,3221/images-prohod.html

 

and this one:

 

 

by

"DMITRY MARKOV Coins & Medals" for $220 in 2008...

 

http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,5644/coins,1947/type,2357/auction,16/date,2008-01-10/lot,1291/images-prohod.html

 

Looks like they are original coins too...

I think his second chance offer was knocked down by others alex. I don't believe he has identical coins, probably he has coins from the same dies if they were found in one tin. Steve, $150 would be a good price if it was original I'd probably buy it for twice that amount.. but given that it is too suspicious how he sells bringing price up artificially, using (no doubt) shill bidding, I am having second thoughts. It looks genuine to me, but I was fooled before. When you talk about China, it's not all fake. Kharbin was heavily populated by Russians with reasonable wealth accumulated there (one of the reasons for Trans-Siberian) who stayed there after revolution and mover around the world slowly and particularly after IIWW when Soviet troops entered. Much of that wealth was hidden away and now slowly found just like in Russia, with metal detectors. Here some auction results: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,2357/prohod.html So, buy or not to buy and if buy how much it really worth?

Yes, it is somewhat correct. I woke up around 3 am to bid on it. I received a second-chance offer from the seller (most probably shill bidding!), but I don't think I'll be paying that much. Apparently there was a question of authenticity here as there were identical die coins sold by the same seller in the past as I'm told now. I am yet to decide what to do and need your advice. I think the coin is genuine but... Here is another coin he sold in the past with that characteristic right wing die imperfection:

 

No, the crown is definitely NOT better looking...

what I meant was - more detailed, although it is ugly. It is different from other known examples for sure...

1837 EM HA RUSSIA NICHOLAS I 10 KOPEKS

 

I am Interested to buy this coin. Please help identify a fair price to buy.

 

Need answer quick! Thank you!

 

Hi Nicholas, Looking at your picture I feel that I have a bad eye-side. But how, may I ask your question relates to the topic? If that's not too much trouble, would you mind please to move it to a new topic? I think if you open a topic called "Russian Over-strikes - share and help!" there will be a lot of interest and contributions... Cheers!

I have these 2 coins of this "Pchyelka" type, not sure if they are rare or common. Can you tell me?

 

&

 

Look to me like the same type...

It has some features (e.g. crown) better looking than the other two coins, and the other features worth looking (e.g. marks close to edges). I am not talking about condition but the actual design of the dies. It looks old, but I would be very cautious, and would not risk my pennies on that one... If it looks too good to be true, it most probably is...

My new find 1764 5 Kopeck MM mint re-coined from 1762 10 kopeck.

Found in Italy! Are the over-strikes of this mint common? They probably are...

 

 

I think I am starting to catch Sigi's 5 kopeck fever... In Sigi's collection there is a much better example.

Well, I'm excited, anyway!

This is an empirical knowledge, based on someone's experience and analysis of literature, sales, and coins in private collections shared with this guy as far as I know... He didn't explain much as he didn't like I questioned him, but I did a little digging around the topics and could see that there were a few topics discussed previously there to do with СПМ and СМ 5 kopecks. Still, it is an empirical knowledge that can be argued as it contradicts let's say Konros 2009 ( ) , but again, who knows what Konros based their classification on (?)... However, in his classifications there are 4 classes with small CM with 3 of them being infrequent or rare (not my coin), and one "common" (my coin) collectively making small CM coins infrequent, with mine being the most common. This would explain Konros's classification and makes it believable. This can be argued and argued and will end up with who trust who more, in other words, on persosnal preference. I personally don't know how much he researched this particular type and what he based his assumptions on, in order for me to agree or to disagree, but as I said, it makes it believable and I tent to agree with him more than disagree. He couldn't comment on two "M" variants, it looks like this didn't get under anyone's radar so far, but it doesn't make a new class of CM 1764, rather a subclass of what he believes is a common type, so that may have to be still researched if anyone is interested.

This is fun to read!

Here is another example of 1718 ALTYN (3 KOPEKS) that I prize in my collection:

 

 

All these small silver coins are quickly becoming rare commodities.

 

Here is another one, more common 1704 ALTYN (3 KOPEKS):

 

 

Steve D'Ippolito I'd love to see the 1699 (7207) half rouble you are talking about!!!

 

Here is an answer from another forum:

 

There were no genuine 1699 coins. In 1870 there were 3 Novodels made from original dies. One kept by a State Historical Museum, the second kept in the Hermitage, the third in a private collection. In 1890 Julius Iversen, while he was the chief curator of the numismatic collection of the Hermitage privately made several other remakes of these coin. The original poltina dies have survived and now are kept a special repository of the State Historical Museum.

• 
  
• 
  

I'd like to add any Moscow rouble to my collection. Still looking out for one ... Great roubles!

 

Here is 1723 rouble, so called "sail men". Eagle heads with no crowns variant. It's much nicer in a hand than on this picture...

I thought I'll contribute another image of 1721 rouble from my collection:

 

Don't worry, be happy! You can spend whole life chasing the crooks on eBay, but their supply is never ending. I did as you asked though, but I'd ruther discuss what's good or interesting is there on e-bay, it's not all so bad... I was even curious about how much these casted copies would fetch. I had a bad experience just recently on eBay myself, but I know I will get my money back as I always do when I am wronged. Actually, these days getting myself into situation like this makes me laugh to start with... It is a reminder to me that my overinflated Ego still gets in a way of my cold logic and can play tricks on me. Cheers!

Well, I'm not planing to wright a book about rare roubles. Happy just with the picture from the book. If you believe the picture is from the real coin I can rest my case, that's what I wanted. My obsession with this is over. As to paying $200 for each picture... Hmmm... Well, that kind of explains why Diakov's book goes for around $280. I'd like to get a copy one day... By the way, I wrote to the shop what sells his book in Russia and they said that he printed this book in English as well and it should be sold outside Russia. Wonder if anyone know where? Would love to check the price. And yes, I would probably pay $200 if I could just hold that coin... But making a trip to Russia just for that, no thanks.

Just some additional information, that doesn't answer the question posed, but may be interesting for general knowledge. On Russian forum (CFN) one of the collectors who studied CM and СПМ coins of this and other years has classified 5 kopecks CM 1764 as follows:

 

1) CM small / small bow (more common) - no further classification given

2) CM large eagle '63 / small bow (rare)

3) CM small / large bow transmitter. of 63 year (infrequent)

4) CM small / big bow (infrequent)

5) CM small eagle Dacier / small bow (very rare)

6) CM / СПМ long tail / small bow (infrequent)

7) CM / СПМ tail chopped off / small bow (infrequent)

8) CM / СПМ tail chopped off. / Large bow (very rare)

9) СM special small eagle / small. Bow (rare)

...Brekke had just one 5kop1764CM in his collection, it happens to be your type (as to ribbon and small mintmark) but with straight M. The Aalborg copper collection (sold in 4 sections in Copenhagen as Russia I, II, III and IV a few year ago) contained also only one 5kop1764CM, ribbon like yours, small CM, M slanting but with the C somewhat more remote from the eagle's tail. Yusupov lists 4 variants of the 5kop1764CM....

Thank you for the facts Sigi! Waiting for your ref. from Yusupov I am not sure if we are on something here or not and someone probably had researched this before, but I haven't come accross this yet. It's easy when you have Interenet and can look through many images of a coin variant in order to "find the Wally" (something different that you are after) and than classify it. I am glad I noticed this though. I also noticed, as you point out that in some small CM's of this year (not recuts from SPM, but the original CM mint) some C-s stay further away from the eagle's tale. Not sure of the rarity of any of them (Uzdenikov doesn't classify them very well), but here is an extract from the old 2009 Konros catalog that shows that small CMs in 1764 were somewhat rare. Have no idea what they based this on, probably on previous sales:

 

Here is mine, guys. I am wracking my brain to remember where i bought it... possibly WAG

Very interesting about the variants, including the different "M" dies! ...

You have exactly the type we are talking about. I love it's colour! Here is mine a little closer:

 

 

and its M variant

 

I wonder what is the rarity of M (stright) compare to M (narrowed at the top)?

OK, I already saw the picture from Diakov 2012, still it could be better. Here it is:

• 
  

Looks to me like his picture - just a better resolution of the other ones with somewhat better details. It seams to me it is not a photograph of a real coin, but a photo taken from a cast copy of a coin that was used by GDGM. Some good sole scanned it for me, but it still doesn't look too silvery, so possible it is just a better photo of the same cast copy:

 

It was there. Not any more. Sold for under 90 USD incl delivery.

 

That's what I gathered so far: Original с.м. not found on http://www.mcsearch.info .This is the only coin in similar condition I found sold on auction in the last 3 years: http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,51230/coins,3145/type,4243/auction,49/date,2010-10-21/lot,463/images-prohod.html ... There were 3 sales this year of coins in F. Price is around $300 ... Here is a description of this coin in Russian: 5 копеек 1764 Буквы "СМ" меньше, бант меньше. Биткин # 599 ®, Узденников ( ) , Петров нет руб. , Ильин нет руб. As far as I understand from analyzing this coin (correct me if I'm wrong) original "см" (small) 1764, with "м" narrowing at the top (there are versions with straight "м") - is the most rare version of these 5 kopeks in years from 1764 to 1766.

 

I had a feeling it will interest you Sigi ... I wish it was in a better condition though... Yes, you are absolutely right the 2nd link is to "СПМ" recut (my mistake) with П taken out, you have one of them in your collection. I found auction sales for original CM now: http://www.m-dv.ru/c...243/prohod.html ... by the way, I found another sale link to one you have as well, a pretty amazing auction too: http://www.efimok.ru...velot42130.html it went over 1000 USD

http://rucoin.ru/for...=post&id=127466 - 1764 CM (small lettering) 5 Kopecks. Anyone knows about any similar coins going through auctions? I just bought this one and would like to research it more. It's not in a very great shape, but it will do me for now. The only auction sale I could find was this one over 7 years ago (is it that rare?): http://www.mcsearch....rd.html?id=6680