Steve D'Ippolito
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Posts posted by Steve D'Ippolito
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Another option... go find a 5 ruble note (I think they are prettier anyway, but that's because I like blue, and they are novel in that they are printed in "portrait" mode) and one five ruble coin.
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Many aspects of the transition were deliberately gradual... there were coins issued in the denomination of "ten dengas" rather than "five kopeks" which would be more logical given that part of the reform was to make the kopek, rather than the denga, the "important" small denomination. (I was about to launch into a longer explanation of what I mean by this but I realized I did it in my first post.) The transition from Cyrillic to Arabic dating was handled similarly, it was pretty much done in a random-seeming way so that people could see coins of both types circulating together. There were even cases of copper polushkas (1/4 kopeks) with mixed dates: 17К = 1720 and 17К1 = 1721.
Another aspect of this which was not gradual was the change in the calendar, which happened abruptly enough that there is almost no trace of it in the reform coinage. Before 1700 the year started September 1st and was on the old system allegedly dating from the creation of the world; 1700 was rendered 7208. Any reform coinage you are likely to have in your collection will be a post-reform date. That is, unless your name is "Hermitage", for there is a unique pattern poltina (half ruble) from 1699 which is essentially the first coin of the reform (you could think of it as equivalent to the Contursi silver dollar), and it was dated 207 in Cyrillic (Σ = 200, З = 7. Σ is simply an older style rendering of С that recalls Cyrillic's origins in the Greek alphabet). The thousands "digit" was omitted as was customary before the calendar reform--it is not omitted in post-reform Cyrillic dated coins. The pattern itself is unique in the trivial sense but it is also unique as the only reform coin dated under the old calendar.
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Whoops, I think I wasn't clear with my question. I wanted to know if you'd be going back to English/UK shillings from before (not after) the Commonwealth... and if so, how far back? I imagine shillings go back into the middle ages. (You did say "Empire" which is somewhat before, I am trying to figure out how far back that is.) I am asking out of a great deal of ignorance of the details of English history. (It's been a while since I read "History Of The English Speaking Peoples")
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No way would I do business with "no returns accepted."
It looks like Diakov 11 but has a raised bump between the left eagle head and the 1. (Disclaimer--I am no expert on spotting fakes... wait for someone else to chime in.)
But even if genuine, I'd not expect to get this piece in the mail, if "no returns" are "accepted"
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What do you think of the price?
Someone clearly recognized it for what it was (it wasn't a 1707!) and cashed in.
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Well it's a really bad fake of a 1707 poltina. Or maybe it's a real (or good fake; I cannot tell) 1703 poltina (Uzdenikov pairing В/б).
OK, I should quit being a wiseass: the seller misattributed the coin.
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Parody! Thats great. What a good description. It makes "Fake" sound like a compliment!
What makes it worse is it was a parody of the wrong coin!
I am not sure how it could be worse.
On second thought, maybe I do: If the auctioneer had tried to sell it as a 100 ruble platinum piece, even if the "coin" was quite plainly labeled "10 gold rubles" even though it was a bronze parody of a 3 kopek piece, it would have been worse.
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Probably a lot saner to tackle a type set rather than a full year/mint set, so I think that's what I'll eventually do. But the nickels first!
A type set would be a cool thing (I am biased, though, being a type collector myself!). Would you want to collect all English/UK shilling types or just ones contemporaneous with the Commonwealth (which would be UK, not English)?
On a related note, has any country in the Commonwealth not decimalized yet?
Interestingly a nickel set would sort of "go" with a shilling set since after decimalization a shilling was equivalent to 5p (I understand shillings continued to circulate for a while because of this), and 5p is analogous to the US "nickel" five cent piece. Okay, it's a very tenuous connection
. But still.... -
, as bobh pointed out, and furthermore:
It doesn't even _try_ to resemble a genuine coin (it looks more like a really bad parody of the 1880s design for 1, 2, and 3 kopek pieces than anything else going on back then) and quite frankly it looks bronze in the photograph to boot.
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I have seen them (and occasionally I'll get a 2009 cent), but it's extremely infrequent. I am sure I haven't seen all that have come out, either of the DC and territories or the "America the Beautiful" quarters.
The mintages have dropped drastically in the past few years, between the economy and the novelty wearing off. Bascially (to borrow a line from The Incredibles), ever quarter issued is "special" now.... so none of them are. The general public (which hugely outnumbers us obsessive-compulsive collectors) is suffering from "quarter fatigue" and frankly, so am I. When I read somewhere that the mint has the legal option to *repeat* this "national parks" program and have it run into the 2030s, I let out the loudest "sigh" in history, wondering if I will die before the mint issues a "normal" quarter again.
IMHO the ATB program is ruined from the outset by rigging it so every state gets to put something in... it's an attempt to deny the fact that some states simply do not have any natural/historic feature worth putting in a national park, and many others have multiple such. Hence we will be seeing national seashores and the like before too long, while something as magnificent as Grand Tetons or Mesa Verde or Sequoia gets short shrift. We've already had one mere national forest, though it was saved from being laughed to death by being the one surrounding Mount Hood!
You probably didn't realize that that quarter was commemorating Mount Hood National Forest, did you, and not the mountain itself? They left off "National Forest." Well, at least Mount Hood National Forest actually has trees in it unlike many Western National "Forests" that are in the middle of some desert. I can't wait to see a treeless "forest" on a quarter. Good news is those states are the ones that tend to have actual national parks in them, so it's unlikely even if the program repeats.
Now the good thing is... these low mintages represent a potential buying opportunity. 20 years from now it will be excruciatingly difficult to find these coins except by going to a coin shop.
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I somehow missed that Swedish one when I was there, or maybe it was issued after 1992? (Or maybe I just didn't exchange enough money, it was only an overnight stay!)
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I have seen a bee once, but I do not remember from where.
Netherlands, the note was gold colored if I recall correctly. It would have been in circulation in the early 90s, and I *think* it was the 50 guilder but don't hold me to that.
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Yes that makes more sense than how I read it. Good explanation. Between that and my attribution of the host coin, we got this one knocked.
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Here's an unusual item. Russian rouble turned into a commemorative token?
The inscription is in English - dated 1 December 1899. I can't quite make out the name:
It looks like "A Prenzlew" which is an odd name so perhaps I am reading it wrong.
The host coin was minted in St. Petersburg in 1842 or 1843, based on the minter's initials (АЧ) and the fact that the eagle is Julian variety "d"; given eight buds on each half of the wreath, it's Julian 1088 or 1095.
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Given all the die varieties that Peter I had, I can imagine it's well-nigh impossible to assemble a complete collection these days. I have five coins (one not yet photographed) that fit into this "bucket". (And these, I did NOT sell in 2008.)
I would hope others can add their "small change" silver coins to this thread. The more the merrier.
Altyns: The altyn was an old denomination equal to six dengas, the name comes from the Tatar word for "six". When Peter I instituted his reform in 1700 and made the primary small denomination the Kopek (which was 2 dengas), he kept this term on the coinage for approximately 20 years but it was described as being 3 kopeks rather than 6 dengas. They are mathematically equivalent of course, but Peter I was trying to change the paradigm from: "The small unit is a denga. The polushka is half a denga, the kopek is two dengas, the altyn is six dengas. 33 altyns and two dengas make up a ruble and by the way there is no ruble coin," to: "The small unit is a kopek. A Denga is half a kopek, a polushka a quarter kopek. There are 100 kopeks in a ruble, and we actually make ruble coins now." The first quote is how a Russian would describe their monetary system in 1699; the second is how Peter I intended his reform to work out (though it took the public time to catch up), and a Russian living 50 years later would probably have described their system that way. Mathematically equivalent but different focus.
Note that the 1712 altyn shown below shows six star-like figures on the reverse for the six dengas in an altyn, the 1718 shows three pellets for the three kopeks, as part of the re-education of the populace about money.
1712 Altyn (3 kopeks):
Reverse legend transliterates to "Altynnik"
1718 Altyn:
Reverse legend transliterates to "Altynnik". The bottom line is the date using cyrillic characters. The "not equals sign" means thousands, follwed by A for 1, the two put together mean 1000. The Ψ (a letter no longer part of the cyrillic alphabet is 1700, the И is 8, the I (also no longer in the alphabet) is 10. The eight is before the ten because the Russian word for 18 derives from "eight on ten", the eight is spoken first.
Part of Peter I's reform was to eliminate the "Cyrillic" style dating. Both styles of date were issued concurrently for many years (and you'll note this coin is dated later than the 1712 "Arabic" date).
1705 БК Grivennik (Grivna)
The term "Grivna" bears explanation. As near as I can tell, Peter I adapted it from an old Ukrainian term for the silver ingots that ultimately became rubles, and he used it for the ten kopek piece. As used by Peter I it was basically the same as "dime" in the United States. Now that Ukraine is independent they use this term for their own currency, but they pronounce Г as an "H" so you see it written in English as some variant of "hrivna"
Legend--front is all abbreviations, I _think_ it goes something like "P[eter] A[lexievich], [of] A[ll] R[ussia] A[utocrat], Ts[ar], P[rince]" Incidentally the word "Tsar" disappeared from Russian coinage after Peter I was proclaimed Emperor in 1721; I have very few coins that actually have the word on them.
Reverse Cyrillic date for 1705 (the E is 5, the other characters as described above) and "Grivnia"
1713 МД Grivennik
The only word needing explanation here simply reads "grivennik"
EDIT: added more information for people who don't speak Russian. (Personally I only speak "coins" when it comes to Russian)
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Draped bust, heraldic reverse. If you want my favorite small cent, I'd go with flying eagle. (I was pleased to finally get an MS 64 flying eagle for my type set not too long ago.) My favorite _reverses_ though are the first reverse for the Indian, followed by the Wheatie reverse. I was pleased to finally get an MS 64 flying eagle for my type set not too long ago.
I absolutely loathe the new "shield" on the reverse, it looks like something you'd see on a cheap token. It seems like every change made to the small cent since it started has been for the worse (though this is not quite true; my favorite reverse is the second reverse small cents used, followed by the fourth one).
. But still....
Latest Circulation Find
in My New Purchases
Posted
Well I just got back from what was probably my best circulation find _ever_. I bought a six inch hoagie at a shop on campus, and was thunderstruck to get a 1944 silver quarter in my change!! The sandwich cost less than five bucks, I think this quarter made it free. (I noticed the color was off, glanced at the edge and saw no red... looked at the date and almost did cartwheels out the door. Silver quarters don't turn up that often--in fact I think it has been well over ten years for me--and when they do it seems they are always from the 60s.)