Marquis of Granby 1774, a mystery piece.

[constanius]

 

The Sentimental Token of the Marquis of Granby by John Kirk is 26mm and like the other 12 Sentimental Tokens is signed Kirk Fec.

 

The other token is signed GB below the bust & is 25mm, it is a real mystery. I have never seen another token so similar to Kik's Sentimental tokens before, or one signed by anyone but Kirk. As to who is GB I will have to work on that one.

 

I took another picture of Kirk's one & tried to show that it is even more similar than the original pictures suggest;

 

[bobh]

The Sentimental Token of the Marquis of Granby by John Kirk is 26mm and like the other 12 Sentimental Tokens is signed Kirk Fec.

 

The other token is signed GB below the bust & is 25mm, it is a real mystery. I have never seen another token so similar to Kik's Sentimental tokens before, or one signed by anyone but Kirk. As to who is GB I will have to work on that one.

Your first token (the one signed by Kirk) is a marvelous item!

 

The second token (GB) looks like someone tried to copy the original. They sure did a good job on the portrait. It is so close to the original -- took me several minutes before I could spot any significant differences in design (spacing of the lines on the vest, the nose, and the ear, for example). The reverse lettering does look a bit cruder, especially the alignment of the letters.

 

But why would anyone want to make a fake of something like this, then sign it with different initials? The fact that the inscription on the reverse is the same (except for the weakly struck "F") shows that whoever made this, wanted to pass it off for the original, IMHO. Are they rare enough that it would motivate someone to make counterfeits of it? Perhaps a contemporary counterfeit?

[constanius]

Your first token (the one signed by Kirk) is a marvelous item!

 

Thanks.

 

A real puzzle, because if it was meant to deceive why not just sign it the same as Kirk's, if it had been I probably would not have spotted it! They have never been really worth enough to fake them, except Pitt, he is worth the most because of the US interest. The one signed GB I suspect is contemporary to the original. If it is a contemporary fake I am more than happy to include it in my collection.

 

I will send the pics to the British Museum for their comments.

[bill]

I don't think it was unusual for different makers to copy one another. I'm not sure what the market was for medals of this sort, but knockoffs must have had some sort of market. I would be really surprised if it was anything other than a contemporary copy.

[constanius]

I don't think it was unusual for different makers to copy one another. I'm not sure what the market was for medals of this sort, but knockoffs must have had some sort of market. I would be really surprised if it was anything other than a contemporary copy.

 

Strange that I have never seen another copy of any other of the sentimentals, in fact it is a very rare occurence to see contemporary copies of this type of medal(19th century copies/galvano/electrotypes for museums yes), whereas some conder tokens(wilkinsons) were freely copied often, as they had a cash value, as were coins of the realm.

[bill]

Anything about Granby or the year that might have made it a local marketable item?

[constanius]

The year 1774 is just the second & last year that the tokens were issued as a gift with the magazine, the first tokens are dated for 1773, the only exceptions are Cromwell's dated 1658 & George II, Beckford & Duchess of Cumberland undated. Granby's token is considered to be the last token struck for the March 1774 issue of the magazine, the magazine itself was published till 1777. So the date is not significant re Granby per se.

 

Perhaps as you suggest Bill there was a bigger demand for medals of Granby than the limited number issued with the magazine could satisfy & some enterprising fellow made some copies, not wanting to deceive he sign them GB, not KIRK FEC. Just strange in that I have kept close watch on all the sentimentals being offered for sale(ebay, dealers & auctions for 4 years) & never spotted another copy, but perhaps he only struck a few.

 

 

General John Manners, Marquess of Granby PC, (Kelham, 2 January 1721 – October 18, 1770, Scarborough), British soldier, was the eldest son of the 3rd Duke of Rutland. As he did not outlive his father, he was known by his father's subsidiary title, Marquess of Granby.

 

Minden was Granby's first great battle. At the head of the Blues he was one of the cavalry leaders halted at the critical moment by Lieutenant-General Sackville, and when in consequence that officer was sent home in disgrace, GRANBY succeeded to the command of the British contingent in Ferdinand's army, having 32,000 men under his orders at the beginning of 1760. He also replaced Sackville as Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance. During Sackville's court-martial, Granby testified that Sackville had led the cavalry forward too slowly. Although he suggested Sackville had not been negligent, he could not prevent a verdict of "guilty", and Sackville was thereafter embittered against him.

 

In the remaining campaigns of the Seven Years' War the English contingent was more conspicuous by its conduct than the Prussians themselves. On July 31, 1760 Granby brilliantly stormed Warburg at the head of the British cavalry, capturing 1500 men and ten pieces of artillery. Since his twenties, he had been almost entirely bald, but disdained to wear a wig; during the charge, he lost his hat, giving rise to the expression "going at it bald-headed". A year later (July 15, 1761) the British defended the heights of Villinghausen with what Ferdinand himself styled "indescribable bravery". On the following day, he led his troops in a counter-attack and helped drive the French from the field. His opponent, the duc de Broglie, was so impressed that he commissioned a portrait of GRANBY by Sir Joshua Reynolds. In the last campaign, at Gravenstein and Wilhelmsthal, Homberg, Gudensberg and Cassel, Granby's men bore the brunt of the fighting and earned the greatest share of the glory. Lord Ligonier praised his conduct at Wilhelmsthal, where he cut off the French rearguard as "Il a manoeuvré comme un ange … no man ever acted with more courage or more like a commanding officer." His last field action was at Brückermühl, where he brought two brigades to the relief of General Zastrow.

 

 

486. MARQUIS OF GRANBY. 1759.

Bust of the Marquis of Granby, r., hair short, in armour and riband across the breast. Leg. THE BRITISH HERO . THE MARQUIS OF GRANBY.

Rev. A heart, crowned, within a wreath of laurel.

 

1759 Medal of John Manners 1721-1770. The Marquis of Granby. Hero of the Battle of Minden Aug. 1st 1759. Brass 27mm. MI 703/436. Rare.

 

There are many pubs still named The Marquis of Granby. They were originally named so, partly due to his personal sponsorship of his disabled non-commissioned officers as publicans and also because of his public popularity as a war hero.

 

He was also praised, not just by the british, but his enemies too for his heroism, one went so far as to commission a portrait of him.

 

He lost his hair whilst young, but rather than wear a wig (fashionable at that time) he was proud of his baldness and even had his portraits painted with his pate bare, as he is portrayed on this medal.

[bill]

Would not surprise me to find at least a small demand for mementos of such a man, bald though he may have been.

[constanius]

Received a reply back from the British Museum; "It looks to me like another engraver copying Kirk's design, ie not deceiving, just plagiarising. It certainly doesn't look later than early 19th century and could indeed be contemporary"

Another possibility I can think of is perhaps an apprentice piece, "GB, have a go at copying that token of Granby by Kirk". I guess somethings are meant to remain a mystery but I will carry on checking all the sentimental tokens for 'variants'.
EDIT 18.04.2014
I have since purchased another of these tokens signed GB, which is more worn, and just seen another in almost uncirculated condition which leads me to one last theory.... that these were produced for a Marquis of Granby Inn.

[constanius]

A later Marquis of Granby was MP for Stamford, 1837-1852 and in the Highstreet St. Martin's Stamford was a "Marquis of Granby" pub dating from early 18th century.

The name of the Inn had been changed to "The Waggon and Horses" circa 1800 but had been changed back to "Marquis of Granby" in 1846 by John Gardner but records show that the landlord in 1855 was a G. Bleet. Could this be who the initials G. B. under the bust are for?

If so that gives a date for the tokens, circa 1850, here is an image of the old pub.

 

[thedeadpoint]

And so what is there today? Have you been to any of these Marquis of Granby pubs?

[constanius]

Been to many pubs, perhaps too many, but a M. of G. never had the pleasure

 

Building is still there, private accommodation I think.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6479566,-0.4768345,3a,75y,247.82h,95.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjDAHT2XGTOpaj8PrMBUDNQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Thanks for your interest TDP.

[thedeadpoint]

Thank you for continuing to share. As you know, I'm a big fan of all your posts and findings.