mexican cobs

[zapdbf]

Does anyone know about colonial Mexican "cob" coins ie 8 reales .. ect.

 

I normally collect only us coins but the cobs are apart of our history too.

 

What i want to know is ;

 

1. What "cob" varieties circulated in colonial America during the late 1700's to early 1800's

 

2. I am having trouble grasping the grading system, they use simple number ranking as 1 - 6 or more i guess.

 

3. Anyone know where a price guide exists ?

 

I am looking to purchase a specimen for my collection but my knowledge on collecting this kind of coin is very limited any help would be appreciated.

.

[Vfox]

I've got a few in my collection, I grade them like any other coin, but you have to really REALLY keep in mind how these are minted. A full/deeply struck example isn't something someone normally comes by, they are normally uneven and offcentered. I grade them by the amount of wear on the visible design, as in, the highest point I think the design actually had, and how much is left after it wore down.

I have some in my omnicoin, have a look at the link in my signature.

 

Shipwreck coins are another matter, grades can be given to them, but it really breaks down to, do you like what the sea did to it, or would you rather wait for another one to hit the market...never buy something just to have it, be picky! Although most ebay sellers want you to think they have a rare coin, most cobs other than the atochia shipwreck specimens rarely go for over $200. It's all a matter of who wants it more when it comes to the more common shipwreck cobs. I've gotten all the ones I have together for less than $200, the shipwreck specimen I purchased was $78 I think. ( Been a little while, don't remember exact)

 

Good luck with your cob hunt though, these are some of the most interesting coins you can buy, and nearly all of them are unique. Gatta love hand made coins!

[gxseries]

There is something I must warn that counterfeits of such cobs are starting to blow pretty hard these days. I would really recommand if you buy from a repututable dealer and if you have any problems with the authenticity of it, you can always check out with the dealer.

[GDJMSP]

Does anyone know about colonial Mexican "cob" coins ie 8 reales .. ect.

 

I  normally collect only us coins but the cobs are apart of our history too.

 

What  i want to know is ;

 

1. What "cob" varieties circulated in colonial America during the late 1700's to early 1800's

 

2. I am having trouble grasping the grading system, they use simple number ranking as 1 - 6 or more i guess.

 

3. Anyone know where a price guide exists ?

 

I am looking to purchase a specimen for my collection but my knowledge on collecting this kind of coin is very limited any help would be appreciated.

.

 

 

For the time period you mention the Spanish colonial coins that circulated widely in North America were the milled versions, not the cobs. Yes some cobs did still circulate by then but only a few. The milled coins were in wide use in all denominations from 1/2 reale to 8 reales.

 

The grading system you mention is used by salvage companies to describe the condition of the coin for sale. It is not used by anyone else.

 

As for a price guide, try this - Click Here

[zapdbf]

"For the time period you mention the Spanish colonial coins that circulated widely in North America were the milled versions, not the cobs. Yes some cobs did still circulate by then but only a few. The milled coins were in wide use in all denominations from 1/2 reale to 8 reales."

 

That is interesting, when were the cobs popular in the colonies?

 

One of the old sayings "A shave and a Hair cut Two Bits" refers to (From my research) comes from the time when the cobs were cut into either four or eight pieces to be used to pay for services less then 8 Reales. I am researching this for a display at our local Library. -- So did spanish milled dollars get cut into pieces or just the cobs, if it was just the cobs, then how far back does that saying go -- i wonder.

 

 

"The grading system you mention is used by salvage companies to describe the condition of the coin for sale. It is not used by anyone else."

 

So what you are saying in this case is that the grading (using numbers) has no basis at all and cannot be translated into a real grade. -- That makes life interesting when trying to purchace on line.

[GDJMSP]

"For the time period you mention the Spanish colonial coins that circulated widely in North America were the milled versions, not the cobs. Yes some cobs did still circulate by then but only a few. The milled coins were in wide use in all denominations from 1/2 reale to 8 reales."

 

That is interesting, when were the cobs popular in the colonies?

 

At the Mexico City mint cobs were produced from 1572 thru 1734. The milled coinage began in 1732. So although cobs did circulate in the colonies it was to a much lesser extent than with he milled coinage. At the Potosi mint however cobs were produced until 1766 and the milled coinage began in 1767. They were the last mint to produce cob coinage.

 

One of the old sayings "A shave and a Hair cut Two Bits" refers to (From my research)  comes from the time when the cobs were cut into either four or eight pieces to be used to pay for services less then 8 Reales.  I am researching this for a display at our local  Library. -- So did spanish milled dollars get cut into pieces or just the cobs, if it was just the cobs, then how far back does that saying go -- i wonder.

 

Cobs were rarely cut into pieces as you describe because of the irregular shape of the coins. One side was often thicker & heavier than another and there was no convenient way to accurately judge weight.

 

The milled coinage however because it was the same thickness and size for each denomination was quite easily cut into pie shaped wedges that were very close in equal weight to each other. So it was the milled coinage that was cut into pieces. The reason that the larger denominations were cut into pieces to begin with was because the smaller denominations were in greater demand for everday use. There simply was not enough of them to go around. But the 8 reales were plentiful, so the colonist being the resourceful people they had to be, started the habit of cuttingt he larger coins into smaller pieces.

 

As for the saying, it has little to do with cutting the coins into pieces. The milled coins were issued in 1/2 reale, 1 reale, 2 reales, 4 reales & 8 reales denominations. Two bits, was a 2 reales coin. One bit was a 1 reale and so on. The term bit or bits was merely a colloquialism that came into use for the sake of convenience.

 

 

"The grading system you mention is used by salvage companies to describe the condition of the coin for sale. It is not used by anyone else."

 

So what you are saying in this case is that the grading (using numbers) has no basis at all and cannot be translated into a real grade.  -- That makes life interesting when trying to purchace on line.

 

 

True - it has absolutely nothing to do with an accepted grading system. However, that doesn't mean that buying the coins has to be difficult. You just have to avoid buying them from the treasure companies and buy them instead from reputable dealers. In the long run, it will save you money as well as the treasure companies overprice their offerings and often offer inferior pieces. Buying from them is definitely not recommended.

 

If you need to know some reputable sources I would be happy to help out in that regard.

[zapdbf]

i got some bad info then, because one of the articles i read about cobs, mentioned that the reason most of them had a cross like relief was so it could be used as a marker for cutting the cob. I know the cobs are not balanced correctly, and that did raise concern when i read that article if i find it again i will post a link to it.

 

This part of us coin history is very fascinating i appreciate all the comments.

 

 

Does anyone know of any articles dealing with this subject. Before i create this display i want to make absolutely sure i have my facts correct!

 

 

In all the articles that i have read none of them dealt directly with what particular Spanish coinage circulated the most in the colonies, and i know that coins from most all countries were circulated in the colonies but the Spanish coinage was the one we (according to what i have read) used the most.

 

 

I have allot of questions regarding this time period i will post more tonight.

.

[zapdbf]

Quote

"As for the saying, it has little to do with cutting the coins into pieces. The milled coins were issued in 1/2 reale, 1 reale, 2 reales, 4 reales & 8 reales denominations. Two bits, was a 2 reales coin. One bit was a 1 reale and so on. The term bit or bits was merely a colloquialism that came into use for the sake of convenience. "

 

 

 

Ok this is how i got the two bits definition -

 

 

"The peso, or dollar, then had eight reales in it, and they became known as "pieces of eight." As in pirate movies, huh? These reales were often cut into quarters or "eight bits," to make change for small purchases or transactions. "Two bits" then, became a quarter U.S. Before the American Revolution"

 

Read whole thing at

http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_05/stott070705.html

[zapdbf]

I was able to verify everything else, i also discovered the mexico mint's mint mark is Mo, i am finding spanish milled for around $75-$300 . on e-bay for au quality closer to the 300 range, does this seem reasonable i know date and rarity has allot to do with it but it seems what i would call avrage dateed higher grade is around $300. on ebay.

[GDJMSP]

Well, the info in the article you posted is accurate, to a degree. But the author is mixing his time periods without saying so. And the way it is written it would be quite easy for one to misunderstand and take things the wrong way.

 

For example, no 8 reales coin ever contained an oz of silver and no doubloon (8 escudos) ever contained an oz of gold. Both coins were approx 27 grams - one of silver & one of gold. But a Troy oz, which is how gold & silver are weighed and has been for centuries, contains 31.103 grams.

 

Also, he's a bit mixed up if he is trying to describe how cob coins were minted. They most definitely did not use sheets or strips of gold & silver beaten to the desired thickness. The Spanish cast their gold & silver for coins into long, thin and semi round bars - shaped much like a loaf of French bread, only much smaller of course. Then they would literally slice off a piece of what they thought was the appropriate thickness. This piece was then weighed. If the weight was within tolerance (which was a fraction of a gram) the coin was struck. If it was not however, then the piece was trimmed until the desired weight was achieved. And the coin was struck. This is why cobs are so irregular in shape & size. But the weight, the weight is always the same.

 

And that bit (pardon the pun) about the purpose of the cross being to cut the cobs into pieces is so much horse puckey. Yes, some cobs were cut into pieces when necessity required it. But as a general rule they were not. As I said, it was the milled coinage that was cut into pieces.

 

It has been debated for several lifetimes as to how the dollar sign came to be. But there is no definitive answer - only conjecture and supposition. Myself, I have my own theory for its origin and one that makes a whole lot more sense than any of the others. I suspect the dollar sign was a direct result of the Potosi mint mark. Look at the pic -

 

 

The Potosi mint mark is a P T and S superimposed on one another - its at 8 o'clock & 4 o'clock on the coin.

 

You see, Potosi was the largest silver strike known to man. It was a veritable mountain of silver and they produced tons and tons of coins - all with that mint mark. Their coins were the most common, and in this country they were called Spanish dollars and every one of them had that sign (mint mark) that so closely resembles what we call the dollar sign today.

 

As for buying the milled coinage, or cobs for that matter, on ebay - unless you really know what you are doing I would not suggest it for counterfeits abound. There are plenty of trusted sellers out there though and nice 8 reales pieces can be purchased for around $300. Some are much cheaper than others - it all depends as with any coin.

 

Just about any question you care to ask about these coins I can probably answer. And if I can't, I can direct you to the man who literally wrote the book and is acknowledged as one of if not the leading expert on the subject.

 

Meanwhile - you can some articles on the subject by - Clicking Here

[whohah]

The Spainish system of dividing the unit [dollar or peso or eight reales] into eighths held on until a couple of years ago here in the US. "Where?" you ask? It was used by the major stock exchanges to denote the small fractions of a dollar in the price of a share of stock.

 

Old habits die hard...