Looks fake to me... (1756 2 rouble gold piece)

[bobh]

What do you think?

 

L I N K

 

Looking at the scepter on the reverse, the tip should end just below the letter "Б" and not at the "Л" (of the word "РУБЛИ") ... or is this a rare variety?

[gxseries]

Good point - it seems similar to Uze4075 although I am not too aware of various varieties of this coin. Perhaps grivna can answer that question

[grivna1726]

What do you think?

 

L I N K

 

Looking at the scepter on the reverse, the tip should end just below the letter "Б" and not at the "Л" (of the word "РУБЛИ") ... or is this a rare variety?

 

 

Here's what will keep me away: "High bidder: User ID kept private". That is very common in suspicious auctions and always makes me wary.

 

This scan is taken from GM's plate XIII for Elizabeth.

 

 

Numbers 16 and 18 show the tip of the scepter pointing just below the letter "Б" (and not at the "Л" of "РУБЛИ") as you say.

 

However, number 19 shows it pointing directly at the "Б".

 

And number 17 shows it pointing at the "Л" and not the "Б".

 

So I think the position of the scepter is not a good marker for condemning the coin.

[grivna1726]

For comparison, here is a 2R from my collection.

 

It is the variety with the scepter pointing at the "Л" and not the "Б" of "РУБЛИ".

[gxseries]

For comparison, here is a 2R from my collection.

 

It is the variety with the scepter pointing at the "Л" and not the "Б" of "РУБЛИ".

 

Geez Grivna, you have a nice square copper plate, Ionna III ruble, and other really scarce-rare coins

 

What other suprises do you have? A platinum 12 ruble?

[grivna1726]

Geez Grivna, you have a nice square copper plate, Ionna III ruble, and other really scarce-rare coins

 

What other suprises do you have? A platinum 12 ruble?

 

No, the only platinum coin I have (other than an 1803 gold-plated platinum counterfeit Spanish 2 escudos) is an 1828 3 rubles. No 6 or 12 rubles.

 

For Ioann III, I have 3 СПБ rubles (one the floreated edge, the others the normal lettered edge), a Moscow poltina and 2 grivny (but no СПБ poltina or ММД ruble).

[bobh]

Thanks for the replies ... unfortunately, I couldn't view the image of grivna1726's coin properly (shows up as gibberish in my [Netscape 7.2] browser).

 

But in addition to the design elements, the coin looks overall too well-kept to me for such an auction...a serious auction (e.g. NY Sale, Gorny & Mosch, etc.) would easily net several thousand dollars for such a coin if it were genuine, wouldn't it?

[grivna1726]

Thanks for the replies ... unfortunately, I couldn't view the image of grivna1726's coin properly (shows up as gibberish in my [Netscape 7.2] browser).

 

They are corrupt in my browser as well, but not on my computer, where my browser can load them correctly. I'm not sure what's wrong. Somehow they are being damaged or sent incorrectly.

[SlavicScott]

Thanks for the replies ... unfortunately, I couldn't view the image of grivna1726's coin properly (shows up as gibberish in my [Netscape 7.2] browser).

 

 

 

I think the problem is that the images are being uploaded to the server in ASCII instead of Binary code. There is a work around, but it is a little time-consuming. Right click on the attachment in the message, and view the image (it will be a thumbnail). In the URL for the thumbnail, delete the "_thumb" from the address, and it will give you the full size image.

[grivna1726]

I think the problem is that the images are being uploaded to the server in ASCII instead of Binary code.  There is a work around, but it is a little time-consuming.  Right click on the attachment in the message, and view the image (it will be a thumbnail).  In the URL for the thumbnail, delete the "_thumb" from the address, and it will give you the full size image.

 

Thank you, Kuhli! How do I get the browser to upload in binary? I've never had this happen before.

 

Here is the scan from GM mentioned earlier in the thread. Notice the different placements of the scepter relative to the legend.

 

[bobh]

Thank you, Kuhli!  How do I get the browser to upload in binary?  I've never had this happen before.

You could try using FTP transfer instead of through the browser, if that is available. After logging in, just enter the command "BIN", and all file transfers will be in 8-bit binary mode after that.

 

I'll try the work-around that Kuhli suggested. Thank you, Kuhli, for posting the images! Nice coins, BTW, grivna1726!

[bobh]

OK, I compared the images very carefully, and both the obverse and reverse designs have very many significant differences. But as I have learned in the meantime, this doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as genuine vs. fake.

 

Grivna1726, what do you think? Take a close look at the obverse lady's forehead, for example.

[gxseries]

Does it not resemble illustration 17?

[grivna1726]

Double post.

[grivna1726]

OK, I compared the images very carefully, and both the obverse and reverse designs have very many significant differences. But as I have learned in the meantime, this doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as genuine vs. fake.

 

Grivna1726, what do you think? Take a close look at the obverse lady's forehead, for example.

 

A side by side comparison might be helpful.

 

Here is my coin

 

 

and here is the ebay coin

 

 

 

Judging by the fields, the ebay coin appears to be a high grade example. But for a high grade example, it doesn't seem to have much detail in the portrait or the eagle (yet the legends seem fairly sharp). The overall impression is of a well-worn coin in high grade, if that makes any sense. It might be real, but I doubt it.

 

I don't like private auctions. There might be a legitimate reason for running a private auction, but they are very popular with those peddling fakes, presumably because that way no-one can warn the bidders that a coin is of questionable authenticity or an outright forgery.

 

Combining an odd-looking coin with a private auction will keep me away. I agree with you that such a coin, if real, would likely bring a much better price at a major auction than on ebay. So, one has to wonder why the seller chose ebay to sell this coin.

[gxseries]

It might be unfair to discrimate on the sources of the seller and type of action. Indeed, it should have went straight for proper authetication but sadly that doesn't happen

 

I find it very difficult to tell if it is a counterfeited coin ever after reading this whole thread. The seller does have bad photography there and we will never know if that really reflects the appearance of the coin.

 

I personally wouldnt' dare to say that it's 100% genuine, but as well as not saying 100% counterfeit at the same time.

[bobh]

Does it not resemble illustration 17?

That's about as close as I would commit myself to: it "resembles" No. 17.

 

But look at the lettering on the obverse -- in all four examples, it extends much farther down (on the right) than the letters in the eBay picture.

 

Doesn't this look a bit strange?

[gxseries]

Good point there Bobh - that might be a counterfeit afterall.

 

There seems to be something unusual about Russian coins - it seems that some of the coins that I have from later periods have their legends struck / engraved in later than the design. This is one terrible glaring error example:

 

 

I am interested to get another similar coin to that. Note the fixing of the characters set somehow started to slope downwards and that is from St. Petersburg mint.

[grivna1726]

But look at the lettering on the obverse -- in all four examples, it extends much farther down (on the right) than the letters in the eBay picture.

 

Doesn't this look a bit strange?

 

I don't know that it's a fake, but I am very suspicious of it.

 

The ebay coin sold for about $520, which (if it is genuine) seems very cheap.

 

For comparison, here is a real one in "EF-40" (looks more like VF to me) that just sold at auction for considerably more.

[bobh]

For comparison, here is a real one in "EF-40" (looks more like VF to me) that just sold at auction for considerably more.

Thanks for the link ... lots of nice coins in there, especially the ex. Hesselgesser coins. Here's one of them to drool over:

1834-НГ proof Rouble NGC PR-67 w/ monster toning

[gxseries]

Yup... that 1834 ruble is a stunner... and I am trying to do a 1834 type set... Maybe 20 years later when things settle down for me.

[grivna1726]

Thanks for the link ... lots of nice coins in there, especially the ex. Hesselgesser coins. Here's one of them to drool over:

1834-НГ proof Rouble NGC PR-67 w/ monster toning

 

That is a beautiful coin. Ones like that were never cheap, but they were something that a determined collector, even one of modest means, could obtain with a little luck, some saving up and some self-discipline. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.