see323 Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Today, I just received a China altered serial number banknote from a China ebay seller. I have yet to ask him for a refund. The serial number have been skilfully scrape off individually and printed over with the number QA 55555555. Original number is HS82379561. Here is the pictures of the note taken to prove the alternation of the note. The first picture was the note taken using a scanner. The second picture was taken using a digital camera at an angle using the sunlight as a reflective source to view the surface of the note for any alternation of the serial number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdrv Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Unbelievable! If you can still make out the original numbers does it mean that they were not completely scraped off? Did you buy this note directly from China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted April 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Unbelievable! If you can still make out the original numbers does it mean that they were not completely scraped off? Did you buy this note directly from China? I won an ebay auction from a China ebay seller. They are scrape off each of the number and printed over the destinated number on each of the scrape off (original) number. If you just look at it, it looks pretty normal. One of the ways to checked for alternation of the note is to put them under the light at an angle and checked the surface of the note. You will be able to review more information of the note on alternation done, whether it is a washed note etc. It is impossible to tell whether the note has been altered or even a fake note from a scanned picture. This is demonstrated with the given scanned note. It is only when you examine the actual note, more information can be reviewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Holy alteration Batman! That is pretty impressive and scary. It is amazing that with the picture that you have taken, the overprinted numbers cannot be seen at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abish Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Messed up. I hope you didn't lose too much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted April 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Holy alteration Batman! That is pretty impressive and scary. It is amazing that with the picture that you have taken, the overprinted numbers cannot be seen at all! Yes, it is indeed scary. I took about 10 to 15 shots before I got this right. The scraping of each individual letter and number was confine to it's outline and thus, this become obvious when light fall on it at an angle. The serial number QA55555555 which was printed over the scraped serial number can only be seen if it view at a a normal angle. I am glad that the seller is willing to refund me the full amount plus an extra $5 for sending back the note by register mail . He said he was selling for his friend and did not know much about the note but he was also amazed by the picture that I send to him. This is the second time that I was cheated by a China ebay seller. The first time, was not so lucky as I did not receive the items that paid for. It was a fraud case as many of my friends who bought from the same China seller, did not receive their notes. The seller ebay account id was later closed by ebay due to many of the fraud cases. I lost more than US$600. That more than a year ago. I asked for a partial refund from ebay and until today, no news from ebay. Take care when buying from ebay. Check their ratings and make sure that the seller sell to many international customers. If the seller only receive ratings from his/her own country, you have to be more suspicious. I hope this little information will help everyone here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincoffee Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 That is terrible and impressive. I have a feeling that the Nigerian email scammers and other well-organized rip-off artists will eventually move into eBay on a large scale. It's already started on a smaller scale. Once that happens, you will have to worry about every single transaction, even if the seller has a lot of positive feedback. eBay may cease to be a viable marketplace in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Yes, it is indeed scary. I took about 10 to 15 shots before I got this right. The scraping of each individual letter and number was confine to it's outline and thus, this become obvious when light fall on it at an angle. The serial number QA55555555 which was printed over the scraped serial number can only be seen if it view at a a normal angle. I am glad that the seller is willing to refund me the full amount plus an extra $5 for sending back the note by register mail . He said he was selling for his friend and did not know much about the note but he was also amazed by the picture that I send to him. ... I wonder, did you ever think that this note was specifically made to attract you? Is your goal of collecting solid 5s and 8s very public? Perhaps it is just a coincidence that this note has been altered to 5s and not 3s or 7s. It was just a thought that popped into my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted April 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I wonder, did you ever think that this note was specifically made to attract you? Is your goal of collecting solid 5s and 8s very public? Perhaps it is just a coincidence that this note has been altered to 5s and not 3s or 7s. It was just a thought that popped into my head. There is a possibility but in general solid numbers especially from China are hot items in ebay but due to the many cases of frauds among a handful of China ebay sellers, the take up rate have not been too good. Prices were never too high these days. But if it is from a reliable source, the prices of these genuine China solid numbers banknote would have been very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast1098 Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 If you look closely at the note where the serial number is, you can see that it isnt printed straight. It raises up ever so slightly as it goes along, kind of like it wasnt inserted into the printer or typewriter correctly. The first 5 looks like it sits a little lower than the last 5, like a tiny incline...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted April 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 If you look closely at the note where the serial number is, you can see that it isnt printed straight. It raises up ever so slightly as it goes along, kind of like it wasnt inserted into the printer or typewriter correctly. The first 5 looks like it sits a little lower than the last 5, like a tiny incline...... Good Observation. It is possible that the printing may be not so straight. I did a further examination earlier on the note. I believe they did not use a printer or a typewriter to print the QA55555555 serial number as there were no embossed serial number on the reverse of the note. The original serial number have since been scraped off thus the original embossed disappear. The note does not seem to be pressed as the note is still quite thick in it's original paper. They might have used a black ink chop for this purpose as it is more accurate to chop the serial number on the exact location of the note. The ink chop can be make into the desired font similiar to the original font type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast1098 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I dont know why, but I can pick up on litle things like that...... Its still an interesting note though..... KFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted April 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I dont know why, but I can pick up on litle things like that...... Its still an interesting note though..... KFC That's a good thing. Great for detailed investigation on notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Good detective work. I had never seen this before. Your photos are well done and very helpful. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 oops... I spotted a similiar serial number note QA 555555555. http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-1980-PICK-886-5-...1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast1098 Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Is that from the same seller you got your other note from? KFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Is that from the same seller you got your other note from?KFC No, it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten Rodney Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Have you reported this to Ebay fraud department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Have you reported this to Ebay fraud department? Money already refunded and note returned. So no more issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb1967 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Money already refunded and note returned. So no more issue. No more issue only if nobody buys again from him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted May 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 No more issue only if nobody buys again from him... I felt that this China seller, who sold me the note, is not out to cheat anyone. This was not his usual items sold in ebay. I believe he too has been con by someone into buying them. I also believe that he does not know about it. I do not think that he will take out the same note to sell again since he now knows that the item is not genuine. One advice for buyers. China altered notes can also be sold by non-China sellers. As these altered notes are sold and circulated to world collectors and dealers, they may surface in the market later to be sold by them. As some do not have the knowledge and expertise to identify them, they are not aware of them. Unless, you are aware of them and have good ethics as sellers, you will not put up these notes for sales in the market. I personally do not sell such notes to destroy my reputation both as a collector and seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebat_Jr Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 My problem was......when dealing with eBay sellers.......some of them taking profits from postage! ......if they are really international sellers, I don't mind......but local sellers charging US4 flat rate.....or even worst USD4 flat rate PER ITEM! .....very irritating.......one time my order from Singapore (sorry mr See!) never arrived......the latest from Malaysia.....also never arrived.......really bad!......that's why....when dealing with new dealer/seller.......I started small...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 My problem was......when dealing with eBay sellers.......some of them taking profits from postage! ......if they are really international sellers, I don't mind......but local sellers charging US4 flat rate.....or even worst USD4 flat rate PER ITEM! .....very irritating.......one time my order from Singapore (sorry mr See!) never arrived......the latest from Malaysia.....also never arrived.......really bad!......that's why....when dealing with new dealer/seller.......I started small...... Sorry to hear that some of your items never arrive. I was lucky so far except for once which i have mention earlier but unfortunately it is a big amount. I do sell in ebay as well under the ebay id dsee323 but at the moment, I do not have anything for sales. Also so far, whatever I sold, all my buyer have received them. No losses during delivery. From my observation and experiences, there are reason why buyer did not receive the item. If you are located in Malaysia, somehow you may have problem receiving item from US. You can get your US seller to send it to a friend in Singapore and in turn send it to Malaysia. You should always request for them to send it by registered mail. Usually for expensive item, I will advice the buyer to send by courier services such as EMS, DHL, FedexExpress. The amount of payment for courier delivery is a faction of the price you pay for the expensive banknotes. Sometimes, the delivered item are not properly wrapped and sealed and thus resulted in being opened and content taken out. Always declare the content of what you are sending by filling up a sticker form so that it is being pasted on the letter or parcel. As far as possible, try to pay by paypal. Never send cash even by register mail to India, Indonesia and sometimes Philippines. I had a bad experience when I send a US$100 bill to an Indian seller. The money arrived with only US$10 inside. The registered sealed envelope was neatly open with content removed except for a US$10. I told the Indian seller to keep the $10 and decided to drop the transaction. It is a risk sending banknotes by mail. If you are willing to pay for courier delivery especially for expensive item, it will be a great. Don't buy from non-reputable sellers. Read their rating carely. Make sure they are many transactions from international buyers. China sellers have many ratings but most of the time they are from China buyers. As for charging of postage, it varies from $4 to as much as $20 for register mail. Once I paid $15 for a postage from US. Instead of arriving by register mail, it came in an unregistered normal airmail. I was very lucky to receive it. If I am not not in Singapore, I may not have receive the mail. I personally charge US$5 flat postage fee to my buyers (any countries in the world). All items will be send by register mail. I have many collector friends and buyers from Malaysia. I hope these information help you in a certain way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Yesterday, I just checked with one of my ex-buyer ( he bought a note from me before ) who purchases some China solid numbers banknotes from a China ebay seller. As I have suspected that the seller was from a certain region in China. I wrote him an email enquiring about his purchases. He went to take a good look at the 4 banknotes that he had purchased. With a magnifying glass, all banknotes were with altered serial number. He was angry with the fake serial numbered notes. Very unfortunate as he became a victim of a gang of dishonest China ebay sellers ( They uses different ebay ids ). If I did not alert him about the altered notes, he would have taken it as a good buy. I have asked him to seek for a refund from this China seller. Let's hope he gets a full refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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