Burks Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 What kind of jobs are there in the field of numismatics other than being a dealer? Just kind of curious really. At the point in my life that if what my current plan doesn't work out, I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Well there are graders, retail salespeople, catalogers/researchers, auction assistants(a number of different types of jobs there), writers, and of course investors/traders. I'm sure that there are many I've missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted March 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Wow. Didn't realize there were that many. If I were to get a job in the field, dealing/trading would be toward the bottom. Kind of a large initial investment it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 I just saw Heritage is looking for a grader to screen and grade coins. Preferable experience at PCGS, NGC, etc but not required. Pay commesurate with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu62 Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 PCGS or NGC I forget which one , is based in SArasota Fla. I often thought about what a fun job that would be , except if you are a grader you are forbidden to buy/sell coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 I think being a grader would be fun. For about a week. I would probably get fired anywqay for taking more than 5 or 6 seconds per coin when I saw a cool one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 How come you couldn't buy/sell coins if you were a grader??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Hey, where's die medallists, and other people who work in the mint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 PCGS or NGC I forget which one , is based in SArasota Fla. I often thought about what a fun job that would be , except if you are a grader you are forbidden to buy/sell coins. I would consider doing one of those internships for the ANA out in Colorado Springs, leaving Erica behind would not work so well. If there was a coin grading company within one state I would apply there and do some work for a while and move on to bigger and better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 How come you couldn't buy/sell coins if you were a grader??? Think about it - if you were a grader and selling coins, how easy would it be to rig the market ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Appearently, that is why Cameron Kiefer, owner of sampleslabs.com had to agree that he could not buy / sell sample slabs while he is working in ICG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Think about it - if you were a grader and selling coins, how easy would it be to rig the market ? Collecting a certain type, let's say Morgans, that you really like could alter your grading standards. Maybe tougher, maybe easier. For the experience and knowledge I would gladly give up a couple years of collecting to grade and learn. I like to go to coin shows and just look at all the grades and wear patterns on different coins. Even if I don't buy anything and the show is horrible I still enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdrv Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 One of CU members got a job at PCGS as a coin photographer. He is really good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 PCGS or NGC I forget which one , is based in SArasota Fla. I often thought about what a fun job that would be , except if you are a grader you are forbidden to buy/sell coins. Heh, the graders can't buy but the President/Owner can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockwalliper Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 You could alway be a Forum mod. I hear that pays well. And you get to keep collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpnyc Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Heh, the graders can't buy but the President/Owner can. You wouldn't be referring to good old DH, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 You wouldn't be referring to good old DH, would you? I wonder if the president can do a "Presidential Review" on his own coins as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willieboyd2 Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I am a member of a local coin club. We have a guy who has been collecting coins for 50 years and is not a dealer. He does appraisals of coin collections for estates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Well there are graders, retail salespeople, catalogers/researchers, auction assistants(a number of different types of jobs there), writers, and of course investors/traders. I'm sure that there are many I've missed. If you like coins and have experience at almost anything, you can find some kind of work in numismatics. Retail clerking is an underappreciated skill. We have too many numismatists behind the counter who "know a lot about coins" and know nothing about people. "We see common junk like this all the time. I can't give you more than $8 for it." versus "Nice coin! I'd be happy to give you $8 for it." I saw one case where the customer wanted way more than market for an item and claimed that they had another dealer who would pay it and the one guy behind the counter gave a cheery reply, telling the customer to take the better offer because it is pretty good, while the other clerk grumbled that the customer was virtually a liar. If you go to coin shows, you meet all kinds of dealers and almost any avenue can be a path to success, but if you don't like meeting people, don't stand behind a counter doing it all day. Auction cataloguing is a special skill. A long while back, Heritage was looking for a cataloguer and they ran an ad in the Numismatic Literary Guild journal and when I emailed and wrote and eventually got through on the phone, I was told that their arm was twisted and they agreed to the ad against their better judgment and they were right: being able to write is not the same thing as being able to write an auction catalog. No one who had applied had any experience and they were just going to make due without for now. So, if you want to be a cataloguer, get some experience. For instance, if your club has an auction, then write up the lots and create a dozen "catalogues" over the course of a year. Dealering and tradering are likewise not for everyone who likes coins. The money is not in selling coins, but in buying them. That's true of houses or anything else. As for writering, we have a lot of archived discussions in the Numismatic Online Writers forum. It does not pay. As an editor at Coin World, I got half of what I got as a technical writer both before and after. Coin World was a steady paycheck with benefits, but the salary was modest at best, and the work was hard and unrelenting. You don't spend all day looking at coins. When one of the other Amos editors found out that I posted online after work, he drew me aside and warned me that if I had the energy to write after work, then I must have held something back from the company during the day. Writing freelance for the ANA is not as painful, but pays even less. Serious writers like Robert Leonard and the Roberts Julians have spent lifetimes knocking out articles month after month, week after week, day after day. If you are young and can devote yourself to just that, you can do this for the next generation. The problem is that no one has figured out how to make money doing that ONLINE and ONLINE is the future. The average factory wage in America is $17.00 per hour, for about $35,000 per year. The average household income is about $54,000 per year which is one full time and one part time job per household for about $27 per hour total. The value of the dollar being what it is objectively, if you are not making $100,000 per year, then you are in the working poor. Numismatics pays in the middle of that spectrum. Dealers who have millions in inventory and who buy and sell in the ranges of hundreds of thousands, net out in that middle range of the working poor. Some are middle class ($100,000 to 1 million per year), but at the low end of that, not the high, and only after a lifetime of hard work... just the same as any other career... which is what you would expect, there being no such thing as a free lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu62 Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Mike, that was the finest reply to a thread I have ever seen from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted March 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 The value of the dollar being what it is objectively, if you are not making $100,000 per year, then you are in the working poor. That sure would be nice, probably why I'm stuck in this stupid place for the next 5+ years (college, yay) Anyways thanks for the reply. It was very informative and helpful. Writing is out of the question, my english and creative skills are far from writer material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henare Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 If you like coins and have experience at almost anything, you can find some kind of work in numismatics. well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Great post, Michael! I especially liked the anecdote about Coin World and your off duty time. Quite funny and it drives home a message...when you turn a hobby into a job, it isn't necessarily going to remain all the fun it was as a hobby. It will be a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I worked behind the counter in a coin shop while I was in college. I loved the interaction with collectors. Michael is correct, successful sales requires making a connection with collectors and genuinely enjoying the experience. Our shop encouraged collectrs to come in, sit, enjoy the inventory, and talk for the afternoon. Money was not made on the sale that afternoon, rather it came in the sales that followed. Dealers who make that connection with me get my business. I might talk for an hour, make no purchases, and then order a couple of thousand in coins a few weeks later. Those who don't want to make that connection with me can sell to someone else. While I enjoyed sales, it wasn't a career and thankfully the dealer was a good friend who helped me move on. I found a different career and make enough now (yes, its over $100K and that doesn't mean that much in California) to enjoy my hobby. That being said, its not impossible to find the right position that could lead to a career and a living wage. It does, however, mean you will have to pay your dues, struggle for a long time to make ends meet, and have a little bit of luck in finding the right home. I would never discourage someone from pursuing a dream, but you have to understand the risks and liklihood of payoff. I've always aimed myself at being in the right position to make the choice when its presented to me. An internship is a great idea at this point in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu62 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I worked behind the counter in a coin shop while I was in college. I loved the interaction with collectors. Michael is correct, successful sales requires making a connection with collectors and genuinely enjoying the experience. Our shop encouraged collectrs to come in, sit, enjoy the inventory, and talk for the afternoon. Money was not made on the sale that afternoon, rather it came in the sales that followed. Dealers who make that connection with me get my business. I might talk for an hour, make no purchases, and then order a couple of thousand in coins a few weeks later. Those who don't want to make that connection with me can sell to someone else. While I enjoyed sales, it wasn't a career and thankfully the dealer was a good friend who helped me move on. I found a different career and make enough now (yes, its over $100K and that doesn't mean that much in California) to enjoy my hobby. That being said, its not impossible to find the right position that could lead to a career and a living wage. It does, however, mean you will have to pay your dues, struggle for a long time to make ends meet, and have a little bit of luck in finding the right home. I would never discourage someone from pursuing a dream, but you have to understand the risks and liklihood of payoff. I've always aimed myself at being in the right position to make the choice when its presented to me. An internship is a great idea at this point in your life. Another great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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