bobh Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Interesting ... in the meantime, I received a very curt reply from the seller, a one-liner saying "thank you very much" and nothing else. The auction in the above link has been ended by the seller. All of the other 10 rouble auctions were to end about 1 week from today. Now they will all end in about 1 hour! Most interesting of all, before I sent the notice, all of the auctions had pictures of the edge showing the mintmaster initials. Now they either have no edge pictures or else show only the word "ЗОЛОТНИКЪ", i.e. mintmaster is no longer visible. Additionally, the original auction descriptions included the weight of the coin as "8.60 grams" ... now the weight is gone! This is one seller I would never buy ANYTHING from in the future, in spite of the 100% feedback. I'm beginning to suspect that this is yet another hijacked account. All the gold auctions were relisted to end in 6 days' time, but the pictures are exactly the same (except for the "(A.P)" 1899 coin). What's the best way to report this to eBay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm beginning to suspect that this is yet another hijacked account. All the gold auctions were relisted to end in 6 days' time, but the pictures are exactly the same (except for the "(A.P)" 1899 coin). What's the best way to report this to eBay? Not all 10 Rubles for sale by this seller are fakes. Then some of the auctions end within an hour and some in 6 days, look at all his items: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgld_streamQQhtZ-1 And I do not think it is hijacked account, most likely the guy was surprised himself to learn that he was selling a fake. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Not all 10 Rubles for sale by this seller are fakes. Then some of the auctions end within an hour and some in 6 days, look at all his items: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgld_streamQQhtZ-1 And I do not think it is hijacked account, most likely the guy was surprised himself to learn that he was selling a fake. WCO Did you compare the pictures in the different auctions? They look exactly the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Did you compare the pictures in the different auctions? They look exactly the same to me. Stock pictures. Almost all are bullion coins worth $200-230, 1911 is slightly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 First, I would like to thank everyone contributing to this forum for the wonderful information. I am only a beginner and will have little to contribute. What I would like to do is ask some questions. What should the weight of a 5 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' be ? What should the mintmasters initials be on a 1911 10 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' ? I have looked at the list of books bobh and others have recommended which I am sure will have all this information but have not purchased them yet. Meanwhile I have ten days to return the 1911 coin I have just received. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Maya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 First, I would like to thank everyone contributing to this forum for the wonderful information. I am only a beginner and will have little to contribute. What I would like to do is ask some questions. What should the weight of a 5 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' be ? What should the mintmasters initials be on a 1911 10 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' ? I have looked at the list of books bobh and others have recommended which I am sure will have all this information but have not purchased them yet. Meanwhile I have ten days to return the 1911 coin I have just received. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Maya Welcome to coinpeople! Mintmaster for 1911 is "ЗБ" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeningradDutch Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Не за что, WCO! OK. I can understand why someone would fake a rare coin such as 1895 or 1896 10 rouble gold coins using gold, but why 1899? This coin is seldom worth more than its metal value unless it is in BU or proof condition. Well, we have two coins here of this type ... the one I posted at the top of this thread, and the one Tane bought from a Swiss dealer. His was not the same coin, as can easily be ascertained by comparing his images with mine. Yet both have the same weight, exactly 8.4g (my scales are only accurate to 0.1g, but I always have fresh batteries, put it on level surface, etc.) I still think anyone is crazy to fake an 1899 10 rouble gold coin using gold when the only profit on selling the coin is 0.2g of gold. I would assume that this coin is probably gold-plated. Unfortunately (??? ), I sent mine back to the dealer for a refund. I disagree as to the metal content as far as the 1899 year gold coins go, but I have no means of proving this. Thanks for this valuable information! In my opinion it is easier to do fakes of 10 roubles 1989 or any other common year because they can do it in large quantities, it is easy to sell 10R and noone will notice if extra number of coins appear on the market. On the other side selling a rare coin would draw attention of pro numismats who will apply more due dilligince in acquiring the coin which might be more difficult to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted February 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 First, I would like to thank everyone contributing to this forum for the wonderful information. I am only a beginner and will have little to contribute. What I would like to do is ask some questions. What should the weight of a 5 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' be ? What should the mintmasters initials be on a 1911 10 rouble gold 'Nicholas II' ? I have looked at the list of books bobh and others have recommended which I am sure will have all this information but have not purchased them yet. Meanwhile I have ten days to return the 1911 coin I have just received. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Maya Hello Maya, and welcome to CoinPeople! The correct weight for Nicholas II 5 rouble coins (minted in 1897 and afterwards) is 4.3 grams. Unfortunately, the coin weight given in the Krause-Mishler catalogs in grams is incorrect, but the weight of fine gold content given in fractions of troy ounces is correct. Compare these with the weights given of the earlier 5 rouble coins (those are correct) and you'll see where the error occurred. grivna1726 has given you the mintmaster initials for 1911. The 10 rouble coins should weigh 8.6 grams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 grivna1726 and bobh. Thank you so much for the information. Maya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain386 Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 hello! lots of russian gold coins are fake i wanted to have an Nikoli II 5 rouble and i ordered it from my dealer. He has a machine what shows when did the metal structure was changed. He bought ten 5 roubles and all were made in 1940-s. (in original mould or form(don`t know right word) and with original gold from 5 rouble which were worn or smth) He said that the first copy was made in 1917. At the moment i don`t have that 5 rouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hi everybody. Have you noticed that there are more 1899 10 roubles Nicholas II on ebay now? Two of them have the correct mintmaster's initials, the other two have not responded to inquiries. I have recently purchased a 1911 10 roubles Nichalas II and thanks to all the contributions to this forum, have taken some precautions. The mintmaster's mark is correct, the weight is correct, and Stack's in New York rated it genuine at Au+. But who knows? I have also purchased a 1903 5 roubles Nicholas II slabbed NGC 65. Again there are no guarantees but for those who are as inexperienced as I, this may be the only way to go for now. Maya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi everybody.Have you noticed that there are more 1899 10 roubles Nicholas II on ebay now? Two of them have the correct mintmaster's initials, the other two have not responded to inquiries. I have recently purchased a 1911 10 roubles Nichalas II and thanks to all the contributions to this forum, have taken some precautions. The mintmaster's mark is correct, the weight is correct, and Stack's in New York rated it genuine at Au+. But who knows? I have also purchased a 1903 5 roubles Nicholas II slabbed NGC 65. Again there are no guarantees but for those who are as inexperienced as I, this may be the only way to go for now. Maya. I have been looking for Russian gold coins of the period of Nicholas II on eBay since January 2005. I have bought most of the gold coins of this period which I now own through eBay, for the simple reason that there was no other source! 1911-EB ten roubles were also struck after the Russian revolution in unknown quantities. It might be slightly rarer than other dates of this period, but not by much -- most reference works will say that this a rare date ... But Bitkin (and others) give us a hint as to the true rarity (or lack of it) for this date. The same apparently holds true for 1899 ... maybe someone found some left over dies after the revolution? But at least the weight and the mintmaster should be correct ... Otherwise, there is no way to tell ... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Perhaps the commies were striking them sometime during after 1918 to pay off someone. It is well known that they printed up the UA-171 5 Ruble notes and maybe others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain386 Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 i`ve heard a myth that kgb got these moulds and stroke gold coins. I hope to get russian gold from old people in estonia. Russian money was in use in Estonia and i hope that someone are willing to sell me right one. Btw. my grandfather was in russian army(3 years was the army then) and when he got out, he got an 5 rouble, but unfortunatly my mother melted it and now she`s wearing gold earrings and ring good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armie888 Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I have read your postings and Im also confused about this as well. The mint master you are talking about that doesnt exist (Ar) how come there is an auction regarding this coin? Could this be just a proof? check this out http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S..._No=51892#Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I have read your postings and Im also confused about this as well.The mint master you are talking about that doesnt exist (Ar) how come there is an auction regarding this coin? Could this be just a proof? check this out http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S..._No=51892#Photo This is a normal issue for 1899 and is relatively common. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I have read your postings and Im also confused about this as well.The mint master you are talking about that doesnt exist (Ar) how come there is an auction regarding this coin? Could this be just a proof? check this out http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S..._No=51892#Photo The description in the Heritage auction states that the mintmaster was AG (Apollon Grasgov). AR (Alexander Redko) did not work at the mint until 1901. 1899-AR, therefore, is an impossible combination. However, 1901-AR, 1902-AR, etc. are OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I have read your postings and Im also confused about this as well.The mint master you are talking about that doesnt exist (Ar) how come there is an auction regarding this coin? Could this be just a proof? check this out http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S..._No=51892#Photo The Mintmaster's initials on the 1899 10 Roubles that were being discussed at the begining of this thread are AP. (AR in English for Alexander Redko). Alexander Redko became mint master at the St. Petersburg Mint in 1901, therefore finding his initials on a 1899 coin is a fairly clear indication that the coin is a fake. The initials Ar or AG in English for Apollon Grasgof are quite legitimate since Apollon Grasgof was mintmaster from 1883 to 1899. You can also expect to find FZ and EB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Bob, it looks like we crossed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Bob, it looks like we crossed again. It' s very nice to have support -- i.e., not to be the only one with the same advice! BTW, congratulations on your belated birthday present (Kazakov reference); I never regretted buying it. Antikvarius, if you are reading this ... do you also sell the Kazakov book, and what does it cost to buy it from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 The mint master you are talking about that doesnt exist (Ar) how come there is an auction regarding this coin? I just realized there must be a misunderstanding here ... The Cyrillic letter "Г" (G in Latin letters) looks very much like the lower-case Latin "R" ("r"), so many sellers of these coins use "Ar" to describe what should be "AГ" (AG), because Cyrillic letters are either unavailable or difficult to enter with most Latin keyboards. However, the images of the edge of the fake 10 rouble coin in the original post show "AP" which are Cyrillic letters corresponding to "AR" in Latin letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armie888 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I just realized there must be a misunderstanding here ... The Cyrillic letter "Г" (G in Latin letters) looks very much like the lower-case Latin "R" ("r"), so many sellers of these coins use "Ar" to describe what should be "AГ" (AG), because Cyrillic letters are either unavailable or difficult to enter with most Latin keyboards. However, the images of the edge of the fake 10 rouble coin in the original post show "AP" which are Cyrillic letters corresponding to "AR" in Latin letters. AHHHH...YES... thank you for that clarification:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 What a coincidence that this thread popped up. Just in case you missed this lot on ebay, here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=140223288148 You can tell it's gilt and the plating is already falling off. Still quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nioc Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Hello everybody, I found these posts yesterday and decided to join. I think I have one object to discuss. There is one 10 rb coin of 1904 issue. The mintmaster looks correct AP (russian letters) according to the year of issue. The weight is 8,61g. Except all that there are some disturbing facts: 1. the coin's diameter is 0.25mm bigger than should be. 2. there are two colors of metal quite pretty seen - cold yellow on the bottom part of the coin slightly turning into copper red yellow on the upper one. 3. all the letters look slightly thicker. 4. the letters on the edge aren't so deep as usually. 5. there is no "meat" for the round edge on averse. 6. some kind of mild texture is seen on plane surfaces of the coin. Well, that's all please come with you ideas and suggestions and let's try to come a conclusion because I'm still not sure about this coin's authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Hello everybody, I found these posts yesterday and decided to join. I think I have one object to discuss. There is one 10 rb coin of 1904 issue. The mintmaster looks correct AP (russian letters) according to the year of issue. The weight is 8,61g. Except all that there are some disturbing facts: 1. the coin's diameter is 0.25mm bigger than should be. 2. there are two colors of metal quite pretty seen - cold yellow on the bottom part of the coin slightly turning into copper red yellow on the upper one. 3. all the letters look slightly thicker. 4. the letters on the edge aren't so deep as usually. 5. there is no "meat" for the round edge on averse. 6. some kind of mild texture is seen on plane surfaces of the coin. Well, that's all please come with you ideas and suggestions and let's try to come a conclusion because I'm still not sure about this coin's authenticity. Welcome to CoinPeople, nioc! If the diameter is really too big, I think the case is very clear. Can you show us some pictures of this coin, especially of the edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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