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Ian Thats a nice one it grabbed my attention becuase I think it's a pattern piece made by Heaton I'm not 100% percent sure though. I hope to one day have a nice gothic godless crown and decent jublilee crown as well but have been a bit focused on the hammered side of things recently.

 

My Victorias are in the British coin gallerys, here it will only let me attach one pic at a time so not sure if you would like me to post here, as I don't want to flood the thread.

 

P.S I posted one that it would let me

 

Hi Ray.

 

I don't think anyone is going to have any objection to you posting coin images to this thread, so go ahead.

 

I don't have any coin images on permanent display. Every now and then I stick a few on my ISP provided web space, but have to kill the url's when I fill up the space and need to make room for more. I've got as far as opening an account at Omnicoin, but thats about it todate. :-)

 

You may be right about Heaton being the origin of that `model'. I'm not sure one way or the other to be honest. I had thought that it was a Nurenberg issue though. I'll make a point of checking on this with a guy I know who is more into these and get back to you.

 

You shouldn't really have any problem with getting yourself a jubilee crown. They aren't particularly difficult or expensive, even in high grades. The Gothic crown though......that's something else. I've got a complete date and regnal year set for the Vicky crowns excepting for the 1853 Gothic and the 1839 young head. They've never shown up when i've had the money to buy them with, at least not so far. :-( .

 

THE Vicky i'd love to have I can only dream of (images courtesy of the `Winter 1996 Dolpin Coins' catalogue). You might want to shrink the images :-

 

PatternUnaObv.jpg

PatternUnaRev.jpg

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Una and the Lion i see. Nice enough but i always thought it lacked the charm of the heraldic theme. Looks a bit medally in my opinion.

 

Good point. The style is definitely out of kilter with the heraldic norm of Brit coinage. However it was a pattern demonstrating the quality and craftsmanship that could be achieved. From that perspective it does generate a `wow' factor. I've seen one of these in the flesh, even held it. It was a real struggle to put it back I can tell you.... but the price tag won the day.

 

The rim defect (obverse) at 6:30 doesn't exactly scream out `excellence in quality control' though does it ? For sheer aesthetics however it is `way up there' in the world rankings, with very few coins matching it (IMHO) let alone beating it.

 

Ian

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Una!!! I love the design. Love to get one someday ... *sigh*

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Good point. The style is definitely out of kilter with the heraldic norm of Brit coinage. However it was a pattern demonstrating the quality and craftsmanship that could be achieved. From that perspective it does generate a `wow' factor. I've seen one of these in the flesh, even held it. It was a real struggle to put it back I can tell you.... but the price tag won the day.

 

The rim defect (obverse) at 6:30 doesn't exactly scream out `excellence in quality control' though does it ? For sheer aesthetics however it is `way up there' in the world rankings, with very few coins matching it (IMHO) let alone beating it.

 

Ian

 

 

I agree with you there Ian it's certainly a design that gets an audience and it clearly shows how talented the engravers were. Particularly Mr Wyon. I do like the lion alot.

 

The reverse seems to get most of the attention that i note but i think the obverse is not to be ignored. It's Vicky almost at her best (2nd best), the best of course for me will always be the gothic crown because i just really dig that platt of hair that sweeps under the ear. Love it, love it, love it!*

 

*I actually once saw a women with that hairdo and i was like "wow! It's Vicky!" (It was a real surreal moment there i can tell you).

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I agree with you there Ian it's certainly a design that gets an audience and it clearly shows how talented the engravers were. Particularly Mr Wyon. I do like the lion alot.

 

The reverse seems to get most of the attention that i note but i think the obverse is not to be ignored. It's Vicky almost at her best (2nd best), the best of course for me will always be the gothic crown because i just really dig that platt of hair that sweeps under the ear. Love it, love it, love it!*

 

*I actually once saw a women with that hairdo and i was like "wow! It's Vicky!" (It was a real surreal moment there i can tell you).

 

Here's a sight for sore eyes (if you lke your `Vickies' that is) :ninja:

 

Sadly, i'm not the owner.

 

1853set.jpg

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The 1853 Gothic Crown... now there's a coin you don't see very often! (EVER!) The 1847 is just common in comparison.

 

But i'm really, really liking that sovereign... i mean really liking. I'd take that and leave the rest! (Although i always had a fascination with the young/jubilee head half sovereigns as well).

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That Victoria set is incredible!!! :ninja:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's my latest `Vickie' :ninja:

 

909584.jpg

 

A model (pattern) bi-metallic crown made by Allen and Moore (Birmingham) in 1848 to demonstrate an alternative to the existing coinage and certainly meant to be taken seriously. The bi-medallic model penny created by Allen and Moore in 1844 was so popular with the public that the mint actually issued a statement to the effect that it wasn't legal tender. This particular`model' is only 27mm diameter.

 

Ian

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Here's a sight for sore eyes (if you lke your `Vickies' that is)  :lol:

 

Sadly, i'm not the owner.

 

...

 

 

That's one of the most beautiful sets of coins that I've ever seen. :ninja:

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Here's my latest `Vickie' :lol:

 

909584.jpg

 

A model (pattern) bi-metallic crown made by Allen and Moore (Birmingham) in 1848 to demonstrate an alternative to the existing coinage and certainly meant to be taken seriously. The bi-medallic model penny created by Allen and Moore in 1844 was so popular with the public that the mint actually issued a statement to the effect that it wasn't legal tender. This particular`model' is only 27mm diameter.

 

Ian

 

 

Fantastic. What a beautiful "coin". :ninja::cry:

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Here's my latest Vicky--from the bargain bin, no less!

909585.jpg

For some reason off the scanner, my coins look patchy. I need to tweak filters in Photoshop to get them looking more balanced. It's a nice chocolate all over, not so greenish. The surviving detail makes that ding up at 1 o'clock meaningless in my mind. :ninja:

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Here's my latest `Vickie' :ninja:

 

909584.jpg

 

A model (pattern) bi-metallic crown made by Allen and Moore (Birmingham) in 1848 to demonstrate an alternative to the existing coinage and certainly meant to be taken seriously. The bi-medallic model penny created by Allen and Moore in 1844 was so popular with the public that the mint actually issued a statement to the effect that it wasn't legal tender. This particular`model' is only 27mm diameter.

 

Ian

 

Ian, are those the same people who made the model penny and half penny?

I would assume so, looking at the design similarities.

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Ian, are those the same people who made the model penny and half penny?

I would assume so, looking at the design similarities.

 

Yes, they're the same peop's. There are other denominations too but generally scarcer than hen's teeth.

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here's a scan of the model penny I mentioned. Apologies in advance for my underdeveloped scanning skills  :ninja:

 

penny1.jpg

penny2.jpg

 

Ahhh cool. That looks to be the same as I purchased at a show recently. I read in this thread where you talked a bit more about them. I have not been able to find a whole lot on the net so far. This link -> LINK has one with a brass/bronze center.

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You can find out nigh on everything you might want to know in `Unusual World Coins' by Colin R Bruce (krause Publications) in the GB section. There are various denominations and variants including an error bimetallic penny i.e. `One Penney' .

 

I've only got the 1st edition of that catalogue so it's well out of date. What info are you looking for?

 

Ian

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You can find out nigh on everything you might want to know in `Unusual World Coins' by Colin R Bruce (krause Publications) in the GB section. There are various denominations and variants including an error  bimetallic penny i.e. `One Penney' .

 

I've only got the 1st edition of that catalogue so it's well out of date. What info are you looking for?

 

Ian

 

Thanks for the info. I picked it up out of general interest and so I am curious about its origins. I understand they were private issues. You mentioned that the British mint had stated they were not legal coinage? Yet some of them (like my piece) have circulation wear. I will check the book you mention - I think I have seen it before.

 

 

909530.jpg

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Thanks for the info. I picked it up out of general interest and so I am curious about its origins.  I understand they were private issues. You mentioned that the British mint had stated they were not legal coinage?  Yet some of them (like my piece) have circulation wear. I will check the book you mention - I think I have seen it before.

909530.jpg

 

The book I mentioned isn't going to provide you with the data you are looking for.

 

What I can say is that for the mint to have issued any statement about them not being legal tender, many must have ended up in circulation. In a land that has seen its fair share of token coinages in the past, that would not be all that surprising.

 

As to the `history' behind them, I came across the following just recently written by a seller on ebay, so I don't claim `authorship'. Interestingly author provides a reference at the end. This isn't a key interest area for me otherwise i'd probably follow it up.

 

"JOSEPH MOORE

Joseph Moore was a noted Birmingham medallist ( 1817 – 1892 ) who trained under Halliday. He was then in partnership as Allen & Moore ( 1840 – 1858 ) – the A&M initials are on many pieces of this period. From 1859 onwards he was trading in his own name with the Moore business eventually being acquired by Fattorini & Sons in 1920. In 1844 Moore produced models (patterns) of a bimetallic penny as a suggestion for a change in the currency of the realm by using lighter and smaller coins. Later, in 1847 / 1848 Moore’s firm produced a range of Model pieces ranging from 1/32nd of a farthing (5mm) – although none are known to exist today – to the very ornate crowns and quarter sovereigns. The lower denominations were very small and not actual denominations in force in the UK either at that time, or before or since. The smaller pieces were probably produced to enhance his own expertise and to market the larger pieces and they have readily become collectable today as “Toy and Model” coins.The pennies, in particular, were so popular with the general public that the Royal Mint had to make an official announcement that they were not legal tender. Moore meant them to be serious models for consideration as currency and most have “Model” on them which probably saved Moore from prosecution under the Counterfeit Laws. He also did much other work besides Model Coins – just one example being the Windsor Castle box housing the six 8mm and two 10mm medalets of Queen Victoria, Prince Albert and their first six children. The Moore business was taken over by Fattorini & Sons in 1920. The current reference book for Model Coins is Rogers “Toy Coins” published in 1990."

 

It is important to note that the Allen and Moore coins are in a different league from the Nurenberg ones, which are generally viewed as toy or gaming pieces.

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  • 2 months later...

The 1853 set is a real beauty!

I collect Victoria coins by type to represent the coinage which was legal tender in British African colonies (this was true between 1797 and 1939, thus including Victorian era). The gothic Crown is the only Victorian coin still missing in this portion of my collection, though I am not even sure that it ever made to Africa as a circulating coin.

I have about 60 Victorian coins (from 1/2 Farthing to Crown) with enlarged scans on my website.

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I've got a few too:

 

farthings  (1878 and 1897)

half penny (1860)

penny (1897)

shillings (1873 and 1901)

gothic florin (1857)

897675.jpg

and a half crown (1895)

 

also a canadian cent (1901)

Well on this worn piece I can clearly see that my "bunch of grapes" is indeed shamrocks. I guess it would help if I had actually held one in my hand, but alas, I have not gotten that privilege yet. Someday though.

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