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Lincoln Cent 1925 DDO


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Hi,

Just be aware that Machine doubling is not the same as die doubling. Machine doubling does not add to the value of a coin and in fact, it can detract from a coins grade if it is severe enough.

Again, Don't confuse mechanical doubling which is damage that occurs during the strike with actual die doubling which does add value to a coin in most cases.

 

It is also important to note that the designation on this coin is meaningless with respect to the usual designations and in fact is decieving, NOTE wher it is called 1DO instead of DDO . DDO is a Doubled Die Obverse. DO means doubled obverse which is a way of trying to designate a mechanically doubled coin. AN AU-58 1925 Lincoln cent is worth about $8.00 so I hope noone paid more than that for it. There are thousands of AU-58 1925 cents out there in and out of slabs. Please check who slabbed this coin. I am curios if it is really PCGS.

Have Fun,

Bill

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It is also important to note that the designation on this coin is meaningless with respect to the usual designations and in fact is decieving,  NOTE wher it is called 1DO instead of DDO  .  DDO is a Doubled Die Obverse.  DO means doubled obverse which is a way of trying to designate a mechanically doubled coin.

 

Bill, very nice and informative write up. But, before you can state that "1DO" is meaningless. I suggest that you do take a look on coppercoins.com. Charles Daughtery is a very well know person in the error/variety world. His website is very well run too I must admit. I mean, where else on the web can you find diagnostic shots of various RPMs and DD's for free? Hell the only comprehensive study ever written was thew one Wexler wrote about wheat cents way back in the day. I thought that the comprehensive study to lincoln cents would show ALL doubled dies, but it doesn't. Atleast though, Mr. Daughtery is trying to make this stuff available to the general public. The only area that I have issue with is the pricing is off.....usually way low compared tothe market.

 

For instance though, you state that you wouldn't give much credit/value to the classification of 1972d-1DO-001 But if you look at the corisponding pics, you will see that it is in fact a true doubled die. As far as I know and have surfed Charles site, I have yet to see an example of Strike Doubling listed. But here's that link to the 1972d-1DO-001Charles Daughtery's website

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Hi,

The 1972 D DDO he shows is a common and well known DDO, thats great. I have 10 of them here that I found in rolls. Note that he includes Wexler as a reference on that piece. What bothers me is that he might be slabbing his own stuff, creating his own designations and he may wrong on the 1925 cent. According to the post, it is noted as a Mechanically doubled coin.

 

If Charles uses 1DO on a real doubled die and then 1DO as a designation on something he describes as "mechanically doubled" something is confusing in my humble opinion.

 

If the 1925 cent is something, let's see his reference to Wexler then as there are known doubled dies on 1925 cents.

 

Do it yourself slabbers scare me even if they are as knowledgable as Charles appears tro be.

 

Bill

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Hi,

The 1972 D DDO he shows is a common and well known DDO,  thats great.  I have 10 of them here that I found in rolls.  Note that he includes Wexler as a reference on that piece.  What bothers me is that he is apparently slabbing his own stuff and he is wrong on the 1925 cent.  According to the post, it is noted as a Mechanically doubled coin.

 

If this guy uses 1DO on a real doubled die and then 1DO as a designation on something he describes as "mechanically doubled"  something "ain't right" in my humble opinion.

 

If the 1925 cent is something, let's see his reference to Wexler then as there are known doubled dies on 1925 cents.  I also notice that when you click on a link to his "homepage" for example, it goes to nowhere.  I suggest that hi sinformation is old and stale , at best.

 

Do it yourself slabbers scare me.

 

Bill

Are you the very same gentleman that writes a colum for coin world or NCADD?

 

Also, I wish to make a note here. I have searched more rolls than can be counted, and I have yet to find any of the 72p or 72d doubled dies. They may be listed as common, but they are not as common as some would have us believe. I have found though my fair share plus of the 44d omm#2 in wheat bags and the like.

 

But, back to the original topic here. This is a quote from the original poster...

"Machine doubling of 1925 and LIBERTY.

Secondary eyelidcaused during hubbing of die."

 

You may have read it too quickly. It does designate machine and hub doubling. Chuck may slab his own coins, not something I would recommend, but that's his call. As for me, I have grown tired of the war between CONECA & Wexler, and now the 2 new upstarts so to speak, are Chuck Daughtery and Brian Ribar (I think). Well, with this many different numbering systems, who can keep up? It sickens me to see that many different reference # systems. So, I do not send coins in for attribution. But I have listed unknown doubled dies on eBay, and I state that I know it is a doubled die, I also include 15x and 30x shots of the variety. But I refuse to succumb into the game of "well it isn't a doubled die unless so-and-so says it is". I do hope that the 25p DDO that this gentleman has is a true DDO. That is why I really want to see a nice close up of the eyelid to make my own determination. But all in all, Chuck Daughtery is a VERY knowledgeable person. Check into one of his books at your next coin show. You'll see what I mean.

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Hi,

I don't write for the NCADD but I do the Found In Rolls column for CoinWorld. I have at least 8 varieities of 1972, 1972 D and 1972S Doubled Dies here that were all found in rolls. The 1972 S was a new discovery on my part a few years back. I found The most recent example of a 1972 D DDO cent less than a month ago. I have numerous examples of many of the common ones. The 1972 D, and 1972 are relatively common as they were doubled, I believe on a master hub. Many dies were created and used before the doubling was discovered.

 

I agree that there is a lot of confusion as to the designations used and I wish there was someway that we could make them all uniform. You may have noticed that most folks, Charles included, usually try to reference the more accepted designations created by Wexler, or Fivas and Stanton or Ken Potter.

 

Charles knows his Lincoln cents, i have no doubt about it. I just wish that even he could use a system of labeling that was consistent. I did notice that the 1925 cent also had the Hub doubling description and that could be accurate. There are known "doubled eyelids" on many dates. You are right in that I didn't give much weight to that part of the description that mentioned hub doubling. I also agree that I would like to see a closeup of the eye.

Also, please note that I did go back and edit my post , I didn't like the tone in my first post. It was too cocky for my blood, even though it was my own post :-)

Have Fun,

Bill

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Hi Again,

Something I didn't respond to in your earlier post is that I too only send a coin to Wexler, for example, if I think I have an undiscovered Variety. That way, at least it gets listed somewhere. I've come across several new varieties on 1983, 1985, 1986, and 1989 cents. Also as mentioned before, the 1972 S DDO was a fun find as it was the first business strike DDO to be discovered at that point.

 

As you know since you are expert with them, when you get to a certain point, you know a doubled die when you see one. I have no problem with folks who know what they are talking about listing a DDO on Ebay or elsewhere. I'm sure though that you've seen a lot of badly Mechanically Doubled stuff listed by others on Ebay as true doubled dies as well and that always bothers me because someone is getting something other than what they hoped for. Folks like you are needed in this hobby so that you can educate people as to what they really need to look for.

Have Fun,

Bill

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Whoah now, ease up.......LOL You're mmaking me blush. LOL Too many compliments. LOL

 

Anyways, I tip my hat to you sir! Ladies and Gentlemen, we have in our mix a PUBLISHED author!!! (Some others here may be published too, but not to my knowledge yet, lol, so insult meant to those that I do not know about). I have followed the columns (SP? it's been a long day at work, bear with the mis-spellings today, LOL) since the first one! I get hand me downs of coin world from a dear friend of mine, and he always noteates on the cover any variety columns and or The Found in Rolls Columns. Excellent reading! And now to toot my own horn...

 

The coins Chuck has found in Rolls:

1944-D/s OMM#2 / WOMM-002

various 1970(PDS) MHDDO (cross bar sevens)

A few buffs

About $23.00 in wheats from a $25.00 box from the bank (in one box mind you) :ninja:

A couple Silver Roosevelts

Several 40% silver halves and a couple 90% ones. (Haven't found a Franklin yet though)

And the piece de resistance...................Drum roll please............

1909-S VDB (AG3/partial porous)

 

But as I have said in here before though, a dealers junk box is where I swoop in for the kill, and maybe one of these days, I'll compile a list of that......:lol:

 

And gimme a shout e-mail or what not......I got some 89-D RPMs that I need some verification on. Not listed in Wiles' compiliations, and since Wexler has yet to publish his version of the same thing, I am not sure if he has it either.

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Addendum:

 

#1 I appologize if I seemed cocky or rude. Never is my intention. But since I primarily post from work time is short, and I may cut to the quick a little too quick. LOL

 

#2 doubled eye lids on lincolns....Oh yeah MANY MANY MANY of those for just about most if not all years. I currently have 2 56-D doubled eyelids that I am uncertain if they are listed or not, and several 42-P doubled eyelids (still ain't found the Cherry Pickers variety though....dang it). LOL

 

And finally #3. Maybe those of us in the know should post what referrences that we use. And possibly give a reason why we use that particular referrence, and any cons about it that we see. This would help those of us that do have extensive libraries on trying to figure out what new material to acquire. AQnd it will also help those new to the scene acquire the best/better referrences out there without wasting money on those referrences that aren't worth it. Granted this should be in a new topic of it's own though.....I would do it, but as soon as I get home, I have to update my want lists, cherrying lists, price lists for various "sleeper" varieties, etc....got 3 shows in 2 months, and a week to prep for the first show.....(I don't set up, but I cherry the floor. :ninja: )

 

TTYallL, and I appologize if I seemed the least bit out of place in any of my statements towards you Bill.

 

P.S. - Still waiting on that close up of the eye lid. LOL haha

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Oh just a quick question for ya Bill. How many 1963-P Lincoln Cent Doubled Die #1 (CONECA DDO-001) have you ran across? I just found one recently here, and CONECA Master Listing puts the pop at 1. Which sounds odd to me, especially for 1963. If you need a reference shot I'll get one posted sometime soon on my website, or you can look at some of my closed auctions on ebay (dacoinman there too). Thanks

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Hi,

First let me say that you didn't ound out of place. I DID :-) I too was in a rush and didnt really preview my post as I should. my rushing sometimes sounds too cocky for my own good :-)

 

As for your next post, I'm gonna dig through and see how many 1963 DDOs I have and see which ones they are. I thin I have two of the ones you mentioned but I want to see where they are before I say so for sure.

 

Catchya Later,

Bill

 

PS: I am flattered, Thank You! Like other folks though i am a collector first and I am lucky enough to have hit on an idea that CW liked with my Found In Rolls column. I have a riot searching for all the weird stuff that I am able to find!

 

Also...Mike Marrotta is also well published and I've seen some of his posts here. I'm not sure who else is in here, being new to this forum myself, but he comes to mind right away.

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Gents, My apology, I seem to have misled by including the date and liberty machine doubling. I thought it was just added interest.First of all let me quote from the letter of attribution:

 

"1925,PCGS AU58:This coin also exhibits the same type of machine doubling in the areas you described, but as a pleasant surprise the coin is a doubled die nonetheless. Note that inside the opening in front of Lincoln's eye there is a short line that parallels the eyelid. This line is a secondary eyelid caused during an early hubbing of the die. Because this is part of the hubbed design, and two different hubbings were placed into the die out of alignment with one another (as evidenced by the extra eyelid), this is a true doubled die...never mind the doubling on the letters, that's unrelated machine doubling.

I have taken the liberty to photograph your coin and add it to the coppercoins die system as 1925P-1DO-001, a newly discovered doubled die."

 

Second, I have a pair of OTT lights that should arrive any day (thanks to irishmike) and will proved the best pics I'm capable of, showing the eyelid.

Please, my motivation is only to share. I'm not out to prove anything. Mike

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