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What's Your opinion on the grading services


kumajim
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I've loved silver dollars for over 50 years and it's very interesting to experance the change in grading standards of them. First it was the ANA that started the ball rolling

then came commerical services. Personally I've had recent experances with both NGC and PCGS and was wondering what other members thought of them?

Jim Driscoll

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I think PCGS, ANACS, and NGC do good detecting fakes, altered, and whizzed coins. I think they grade fine +- 1 point. I think paying a lot extra for a one point difference in grade is a little odd considering that grading is so subjective.

 

I think the MS69/70 grading with modern coins is bull.

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I think the MS69/70 grading with modern coins is bull.

 

AMEN!!

 

I have people calling me all the time trying to sell me MS69 Silver Eagles...and I pass on every single one of them..Bullion coins are all nice!!!! A lot of the ones I see are bought off of TV for 5 times what they are really worth....

 

I polietly explain to them thay they are just bullion coins and thay are all very nice....but the fact that their is a market for them......now that strikes me as funny

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That is exactly what I do. I try to stay away from NGC because I like to use the PCGS registry and they only accept PCGS coins. If You submit a MS 65 NGC coin PCGS will

probibly crossover it for You as a MS 62,Maby 63. They are brutal on Crossovers from other services. :ninja:

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I stick with NGC, ANACS, and PCGS (in that order). NGC does a very good job grading. I like ANACS because they will still slab a coin even if it is cleaned or AT. Kind of nice instead of having people pass stuff off as "original".

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That is exactly what I do. I try to stay away from NGC because I like to use the PCGS registry and they only accept PCGS coins. If You submit a MS 65 NGC coin PCGS will

probibly crossover it for You as a MS 62,Maby 63. They are brutal on Crossovers from other services. :ninja:

 

Crackout and resubmit. You probably have 50/50 chance if you picked a nice looking NGC. Copper is probably the least likely to get the same grade as PCGS is noticably stricter.

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I agree with what most of you stated, But remember, your buying the grade as close to it as possible with these graders,and they are good,but they say nothing on strike or eye appeal!! thats what makes the differance when you go to buy a slabed coin, you could have 5 lets say 1883-CCs, all the same grade MS-65, dont jump and get the first one, shop the market, and you will see big price differances in the same grade, the higher will be eye appeal & toneing .But yes of course, stick with the leaders. :ninja:

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Remember that you do have the final say on what you believe the grades are. It is recommanded that you get a photograde book (sorry, I am not too sure about this, but other members can tell you more about it) and get an idea of how grades work.

 

Although the three main tier grading services that the forum people here mentioned do an excellent job in encapsulating such coins so that you don't handle the coins directly and giving excellent gradings, I personally don't like such system as price values have been going crazy over a single digit grade difference. The most obvious would be the MS69 and MS70, where you don't really get to see any major differences. Obviously this has become a ridicious market to play in, but that is if you are happy with such marketing ploys.

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That is exactly what I do. I try to stay away from NGC because I like to use the PCGS registry and they only accept PCGS coins. If You submit a MS 65 NGC coin PCGS will

probibly crossover it for You as a MS 62,Maby 63. They are brutal on Crossovers from other services. :ninja:

 

If you tried the same thing with NGC, you'd get the same result. From my experience, crossing over in a holder is a big mistake. You have to crack it out and send it in or the coin will not get a fair shake. Its all about the competition between the TPG's - they all think they are #1 and they all will hammer a coin in another holder.

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What You say is probibly true and it's at our,the poor collectors,expense to learn this lesson. I know that I buy slabbed coins for My collection,low grade (CHEAP)Morgans

and crack them open to put them into My Dansco Albums.

Jim :ninja:

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It seems to me, (my opinion), that even some of the top-notch graders have trouble with the Bust-half series,(and the others) I see AU's all over the place that I would consider EX-Fine, and some MS-60 or 61's I would say AU's!!(strikes in consideration taken).I still say they should give the old split-grade on the holder for these old coins.....

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Personally, I think slabbing is a fad which is nearly at the top of its bubble. PCGS in particular, has no firm set of standards and is apt to overgrade mediocre coins and dismiss exceptional coins as cleaned when there's no evidence of cleaning. I've seen so many AU Morgans in PCGS MS63 slabs that I have no regard for that company at all.

 

PCGS is guilty of starting that ridiculous practice of assigning MS69 and 70 grades to worthless modern pot metal coins. I'm looking forward to the day the hobby returns to its senses and starts to flip these con artists the bird.

 

If you can't grade, get help from friends. It's killing the hobby to keep buying into this cult of phony prestige established by TPG services for their own benefit.

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I agree with just about everything mentioned here.ICG is clearly in 4th place and they have ICG coins in some big auctions.In a price list I just received ,a coin is described as "really choice AU-UNC, classic PCGS MS-62"!

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Personally, I think slabbing is a fad which is nearly at the top of its bubble. PCGS in particular, has no firm set of standards and is apt to overgrade mediocre coins and dismiss exceptional coins as cleaned when there's no evidence of cleaning. I've seen so many AU Morgans in PCGS MS63 slabs that I have no regard for that company at all.

 

PCGS is guilty of starting that ridiculous practice of assigning MS69 and 70 grades to worthless modern pot metal coins. I'm looking forward to the day the hobby returns to its senses and starts to flip these con artists the bird.

 

If you can't grade, get help from friends. It's killing the hobby to keep buying into this cult of phony prestige established by TPG services for their own benefit.

[/quoteI don't know if it's a fad. It started out with good intentions, and slabs do provide value. They enable Joe Bloe on Ebay to get a fair market price for that 09-S VDB. In essence they are selling their reputation as graders to help enable the little guy to maximize his profit in the marketplace.

 

But, the registry sets, the distinction between perfect modern coins, and the hair splitting grades with wide price chasms are all things I do hope are fads.

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I don't think it's a fad or it will ever go away at least I hope not. 30 years ago if You went to a large coin show with a BU 1884O PL morgan the opinions You'd get would range from doctored coin to there is no such thing as PL O mint morgans,etc.etc.

Now We have several grading services to choose from and We can be rather sure of what we are buying with a little pratice and as long as We don't try crossing over We

will get what We paid for. 30 years ago I bought a lot of AU/Bu 60's that were sold to Me as MS 65's and because of the limited information available back then regarding mints

and differant strikes,etc. Everyone had their Own opinion, :ninja:;);):lol: High if selling ,Low if buying !

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Alright guys..... take a look at one of my auctions

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

 

This is about a $950 coin....It would be lucky to get $700 raw...but in a holder I am going to guess this coin is going to close north of $1,100...I mean that's a $400 difference for a $30 slab...

 

This is where I as a dealer see the benefits of a slabbed coin...

 

You can use knowledge to your advantage at shows as well....look for under graded coins in no name holders...buy them cheaply and send them in to one of the bigger companies....it takes a little practice...but in time you can almost do it in your sleep...

 

 

I'm not saying all coins that are slabbed have added value to me...This MS69/70 Fad that is fueled by the people that sell coins on TV for 5x what they are worth is really getting on my nerves. I had a guy in the shop the other day get very mad at me when he tried to sell me some of these coins....I told him that this is an artificially inflated market and I didn't want anything to do with it....so I politely told him I would pass on the coins...and he pushed and pushed for what "I was willing to pay" for these coins...so I told him the honest to god truth....to me they don't have any added value to me as collectable..and I offered him $15 apiece...and since he paid $99 apiece for them off the TV he got super pissed and walked out....

 

there is nothing we can do to end that fad except to quit buying them and supporting the places that own the "coin vault" TV show and others..

 

My 2 cents

Matt

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You are right on Matt!, I see coins all the time (slabed), that If I had the money I would for sure have them re-graded by another comp.Ive done it before and did great! I remember a 1836-o Bust half I got in fine from a lesser comp. and cracked it out and sent it to ANACS and got EX-FINE!! big $$$$ differance for that coin!!.I have my eye on some right now for the same motive!. :ninja:

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