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Future Glut of Sackies.


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From the mint's site:

 

<pre>January 2007 through February 2007

1 ¢ 5 ¢ 10 ¢ 25 ¢ 50 ¢ 1 $ - GD Total:

Denver 570 M 129 M 219 M 258 M 2 M 176 M 1,354 M

Philadelphia 674 M 100 M 118 M 239 M 0 M 181 M 1,311 M

Total: 1,244 M 228 M 336 M 497 M 2 M 356 M 2,665 M

GD - Sacagawea / Golden Dollar</pre>

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What's particularly fascinating about the dollar coin bruhaha is this:

 

Dollar coins have been a waste for more than 120 years.

 

The Morgan and Peace dollars were coined to satisfy silver states; it was essentially a large scale pork barrel project. There was little demand for them, although they did circulate in western states.

 

The Ike was (allegedly) designed to replace the once superfluous but now very dear Morgan and Peace dollars once the price of silver rose. However these pocket-busters weren't used except in slot machines.

 

The SBA had obvious problems, plus more were minted than were needed.

 

The Sac solved some problems, but could not compete with a dollar bill. Also, too many were minted once again.

 

I had some hope for the presidential coins; they were almost ugly enough to circulate. They're close to my dream of a "Pig's Backside Dollar" which would be so horrendous they would be spent and not hoarded.

 

However, the plain edge error killed that dream. Now they'll be hoarded like everything else. I'm aghast at how awful they are.

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What's particularly fascinating about the dollar coin bruhaha is this:

 

Dollar coins have been a waste for more than 120 years.

 

The Morgan and Peace dollars were coined to satisfy silver states; it was essentially a large scale pork barrel project. There was little demand for them, although they did circulate in western states.

 

The Ike was (allegedly) designed to replace the once superfluous but now very dear Morgan and Peace dollars once the price of silver rose. However these pocket-busters weren't used except in slot machines.

 

The SBA had obvious problems, plus more were minted than were needed.

 

The Sac solved some problems, but could not compete with a dollar bill. Also, too many were minted once again.

 

I had some hope for the presidential coins; they were almost ugly enough to circulate. They're close to my dream of a "Pig's Backside Dollar" which would be so horrendous they would be spent and not hoarded.

 

However, the plain edge error killed that dream. Now they'll be hoarded like everything else. I'm aghast at how awful they are.

 

Fjord makes some excellent points. One thing as collectors we often forget was the purpose of silver dollars. We tend to romanticize about them circulating at face value, and although they certainly did, the vast majority were used as backing for the issuance of silver certificates! I read somewhere online, the account of the early peace dollar mintages that were so high because it was cheaper to mint the silver dollars to back the issuance of silver certificates than for the government to issue bonds at 2% interest to back the issuance of greenbacks. So although we may have fond notions of poker games in the old west for a pile of Morgans, the reality was that even then, the silver dollars were simply stored in the event that someone actually wanted the silver for their paper dollars.

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Spent some at the Post Office this afternoon. The clerk says they like them but are out right now.

 

Spent some in Walgreens for milk. The clerk didn't blink and eye. Just counted out my change.

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The bill authorizing the new President dollar coins says....Beginning January 1, 2007, and ending upon

the termination of the program under

paragraph (8), the Secretary annually shall

mint and issue such `Sacagawea-design' $1

coins for circulation in quantities of no less

than 1/3 of the total $1 coins minted and

issued under this subsection.''

 

So, the mint "MUST" produce 1 sackie for every 2 Pres dollars produced during the entire program (10+ yrs).

 

If the Pres. coins are anywhere near as popular as the state quarters we will have Billions of sackies sitting around doing nothing.

 

I see that this thread has been rekicked alive.

 

I think that it is a ratio of 3:1, so for every three Pres dollars One Sac will be minted. At least that is how I have interpreted the articles I have read.

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Not 3 to 1. One third of the dollar coins minted must be sackies, so the ratio is actually 2 to 1.

 

SEC. 102. PRESIDENTIAL $1 COIN PROGRAM.

 

 

`(B.) CONTINUITY PROVISIONS-

 

`(i) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), the Secretary shall continue to mint and issue $1 coins which bear any design in effect before the issuance of coins as required under this subsection (including the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins).

 

`(ii) CIRCULATION QUANTITY- Beginning January 1, 2007, and ending upon the termination of the program under paragraph (8), the Secretary annually shall mint and issue such `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins for circulation in quantities of no less than 1/3 of the total $1 coins minted and issued under this subsection.'.

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So from that wording, the new reverse design SACs should count toward that number.

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Ah yes... I do see after some quick google research that my math was in error, and Dockwalliper is correct. It is two pres coins, one sackie to be minted out. My fuzzy brain had it that I read in Coin World it was a three pres to one Sac ratio. Who knows, maybe at one time it was going to be, because I just read an early interview with the key sponsor of the bill, Rep. Michael Castle, R-Del. where it said the Sac would be discontinued. Reference Story

 

So yes, based on the initial mintage reports on just the Washington coin, there are going to be a glut of Sacagawea's in the vaults.

 

Not 3 to 1. One third of the dollar coins minted must be sackies, so the ratio is actually 2 to 1.

 

SEC. 102. PRESIDENTIAL $1 COIN PROGRAM.

`(B.) CONTINUITY PROVISIONS-

 

`(i) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), the Secretary shall continue to mint and issue $1 coins which bear any design in effect before the issuance of coins as required under this subsection (including the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins).

 

`(ii) CIRCULATION QUANTITY- Beginning January 1, 2007, and ending upon the termination of the program under paragraph (8), the Secretary annually shall mint and issue such `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins for circulation in quantities of no less than 1/3 of the total $1 coins minted and issued under this subsection.'.

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Preliminary total mintage for the Washington dollar coins.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

(D) 163,680,000

 

(P) 176,680,000

 

total 340,360,000

 

So thats 170,180,000 Sackies (So far) Already surpassing the combined Sackie mintage for the last 5 years. (By far)

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  • 5 months later...

The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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The 400 million plus 2007 Sackies are on the way.

 

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=2710

 

Don Charters asked Moy if the Mint was deliberately not striking 2007 Sacagawea dollars for circulation in hopes they would be abolished. Moy replied that the full year's production run is scheduled for the autumn.

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3 x double post. Impressive!

 

That is a phenomenal amount of coins. Are they all minted at the same mint?

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That is a phenomenal amount of coins. Are they all minted at the same mint?

 

They shoulds be evenly split between Philly and Denver. The proofs and mint set satins don't count towards the totals.

 

I had to go back and reread this thread, it was a good one.

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  • 2 months later...

Lokks like the mint got the reprive it was looking for. There will be no 400 million 2007 Sackies to kick around.

Congress did it with one line in the new "native American Dollar Coin Act".

 

SEC. 3. TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENTS.

 

Section 5112(n)(1) of title 31, United States Code, is amended--

 

(1) by striking the paragraph designation and heading and all that follows through `Notwithstanding subsection (d)' and inserting the following:

 

`(1) REDESIGN BEGINNING IN 2007- Notwithstanding subsection (d)';

 

(2) by striking subparagraph (B.); and

 

(3) by redesignating clauses (i) and (ii) as subparagraphs (A) and (B.), respectively, and indenting the subparagraphs appropriately.

 

That was the paragraph that called for one third of dollar coin production to be Sackies.

 

I wonder how the South Dakota Reps voted? It was a voice vote...I guess they got shouted down.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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