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1805 EM Denga unique?


Collector13
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Hello
 
I have 1805 EM Denga which was sold on 2013 St James auction in England
 
 
Two collectors said that it is counterfeit coin cause dies do not mach (letter and number punches are different that they used) and edge is completely different from the others. I found that there are two types counterfeit coins of 1805 EM Denga which were made by copying from original pattern
 
I couldn't find this type of coin in any catalogues and selling history in m-dv.ru so I decided to sent this coin for grading with all these problems and got grade AU55 BN so the coin is original
 
 
What do think maybe it is unique coin which isn't described in any catalogues  or maybe someone knows in what catalogue to find it ?

Screenshot_2020-12-20 Russia Denga 1805 EM - Alexander I (1801-1825) NGC AU 55 BN - Lot №1358 Auction Coins ee(1).png

Screenshot_2020-12-20 Russia Denga 1805 EM - Alexander I (1801-1825) NGC AU 55 BN - Lot №1358 Auction Coins ee(2).png

Screenshot_2020-12-20 Russia Denga 1805 EM - Alexander I (1801-1825) NGC AU 55 BN - Lot №1358 Auction Coins ee.png

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Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. 

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1 hour ago, ViFi said:

Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. 

I don't agree with you if you say that it is a fake so where is original pattern from which fake coins are made? What you think about katz coin is it fake too?

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3 hours ago, ViFi said:

Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. 

WiFi it's one more proof that you don't know much of Russian coins. You say that ngc has no real experts for Russian coins so can you explain why Russian and Europe collectors buys only NGC and they don't like PCGS? If you have pcgs you must send to reeveluate to ngc if you want to get bigger price. Also it is seen at auctions pcgs coins 10-20% the others 80-90% ngc russian coins. You want another proof go to numisbids and add to search "russia ngc" and "russia pcgs" and you will see the difference

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20 hours ago, Marekkk said:

I don't agree with you if you say that it is a fake so where is original pattern from which fake coins are made? What you think about katz coin is it fake too?

Fake coins donùt have to be made from original patterns, that is why they are fake coins.  

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/10/2021 at 1:09 PM, alexbq2 said:

Unrelated to the question of authenticity, but in what universe does this coin deserve an AU55 grade?

this object of metal and plastic is outrageous on multiple levels

it would deserve a 55 if someone chucked it to the bottom of the ocean, we die off from a zombie pandemic war, the next species digs it up in 1,000,000 years, numismatic science is bounds ahead and it turns out that it actually was an authentic unknown die, and by then gradeflation would have increased that 35 to be a 55

that's really the only way I see this ever being an authentic 55

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  • 4 months later...

This is a very well-known forgery, produced since about 2000 (Chelyabinsk forgery workshop in Russia).
Here is a photo of another copy:

A .jpg

R.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/4/2021 at 4:43 AM, arcze said:

This is a very well-known forgery, produced since about 2000 (Chelyabinsk forgery workshop in Russia).
Here is a photo of another copy:

A .jpg

R.jpg

IMHO this item is not quite the same as the one at the beginning of the discussion.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/12/2021 at 10:12 PM, alexbq2 said:

IMHO this item is not quite the same as the one at the beginning of the discussion.

And it can't be quite the same, because the one at the beginning of the discussion is the cast copy of the forgery I showed - which is clearly visible on the reverse.

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