Collector13 0 Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Hello I have 1805 EM Denga which was sold on 2013 St James auction in England https://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/p,142664/image.html Two collectors said that it is counterfeit coin cause dies do not mach (letter and number punches are different that they used) and edge is completely different from the others. I found that there are two types counterfeit coins of 1805 EM Denga which were made by copying from original pattern I couldn't find this type of coin in any catalogues and selling history in m-dv.ru so I decided to sent this coin for grading with all these problems and got grade AU55 BN so the coin is original https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/5777522-011/55/ What do think maybe it is unique coin which isn't described in any catalogues or maybe someone knows in what catalogue to find it ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marekkk 0 Posted December 25, 2020 Report Share Posted December 25, 2020 Mr Katz also have unpublished unknown and unlisted coins. There lots of copper coins that we don't know and also you can't find it in any catalogue. Only graders can say if it is original or not... https://katzauction.com/lots/view/1-3X9AUP/russia-1-kopek-1824-ngc-unpublished-type Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ViFi 0 Posted December 25, 2020 Report Share Posted December 25, 2020 Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marekkk 0 Posted December 25, 2020 Report Share Posted December 25, 2020 1 hour ago, ViFi said: Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. I don't agree with you if you say that it is a fake so where is original pattern from which fake coins are made? What you think about katz coin is it fake too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marekkk 0 Posted December 25, 2020 Report Share Posted December 25, 2020 3 hours ago, ViFi said: Hi! I only can say that this is one more proof that NGC has no real experts in Russian coins. I have seen quite a number of slabbed Russian coins in NGC holders which even visually didn´t look as genuine coins. At the same time NGC refuses to slab coins proved to be genuine with many passes on the auctions. So this slab is not a proof that the coins is genuine. My opinion this is a fake. Or old fake. WiFi it's one more proof that you don't know much of Russian coins. You say that ngc has no real experts for Russian coins so can you explain why Russian and Europe collectors buys only NGC and they don't like PCGS? If you have pcgs you must send to reeveluate to ngc if you want to get bigger price. Also it is seen at auctions pcgs coins 10-20% the others 80-90% ngc russian coins. You want another proof go to numisbids and add to search "russia ngc" and "russia pcgs" and you will see the difference Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ViFi 0 Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 20 hours ago, Marekkk said: I don't agree with you if you say that it is a fake so where is original pattern from which fake coins are made? What you think about katz coin is it fake too? Fake coins donùt have to be made from original patterns, that is why they are fake coins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ViFi 0 Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 18 hours ago, Marekkk said: why Russian and Europe collectors buys only NGC and they don't like PCGS? Who told you this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ViFi 0 Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 18 hours ago, Marekkk said: WiFi it's one more proof that you don't know much of Russian coins. Who told you this??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 https://coinsmoscow.ru/en__product__denga-1805-em-copper-copy/?catID=1288 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marekkk 0 Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 21 hours ago, squirrel said: The other type also has a copy http://copycoins.ru/1-denga-1805-goda-em The die variation isn't the same as your added copy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marekkk 0 Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 I already found that coin in one collection. Also two museums in Moscow has it. This graded denga is novodel and has no bitkin catalogue. Waiting for museum reply and I will post evidence Quote Link to post Share on other sites
underbidder 0 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 looks sus we need to see the edge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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