sigistenz Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) A witness of EM's 1st year minting skills with the large copper 5 kopek pieces. I could not resist the nice eagle - a variant to my other 1758(EM) below. Sigi Edited November 19, 2018 by sigistenz correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Could you point out the distinction? Is it the feather pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted November 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 I edited my post by inserting a picture of my other coin for comparison. The ciphers of the date are different, also the loop of the wreath. Then the eagle's wings, especially their inner design. According to Eugene, it is the fluffy feathers type. Last not least watch the eagle's tail feathers. Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Thanks for sharing your EM pyataks, Sigi! It is indeed a fluffy eagle (by the wide triple-ended feathers' design), on the top. And a very nice Dasier eagle under it, that retained most features of the SPM "ideal" 5 kopecks from the SPM trial strike (I showed it before), on the eagle side. The cipher side already has distinctive EM design features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Here is an interesting Dasier eagle EM coin. I don't believe I've ever seen this on EM pyataks. Just noticed it. This design (see where the arrow points at) is common for MM pyataks and on early SM (though different shape), but not on EM. Very strange to see this on EM coin... This is a really strange EM pyatak that has bedazzled me: Here is MM to compare to and it fits it perfectly: and Sestroretsk (late and early): and trial strike SMP: Looks like there were some dies' or master dies' repair masters at Ekaterinburg mint, that copied Moscow cipher design wreath in that detail... Very strange. And I thought I've seen it all by now... it is almost as strange as finding Elizabeth pyatak with "closed" crown, instead of the usual oval "opened" base... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted November 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 I am sorry, Eugene but I am not sure about your point There is a little stem between the leaves and the loop, the lowest inner leaf is slightly apart - is that it? I cannot detect much difference. Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Hi Sigi, I'll try to colour code it. It is hard to see and explain it otherwise. Majority 1758 EM pyataks have wreaths' indicated by orange EM. With the top left leaf, first one on the left from the bow, having kind of another leaf poking from behind it. Sometimes it looks like a stick, sometimes like a extra line on top of it and sometimes like another small leaf. Since the model instrument was provided to EM from SPM, I would assume that in 1758 majority coins would look similar to that design (purple EM and SPM). In fact only a very small number of EM coins has this detail similar to SPM design in shape. It was very quickly converted to its own original orange EM style. Whereas I would expect to find EM coins with purple design, I never expected to find green EM coin with similar design to MM coins. You can see that on MM design the lower leaf moves in front of the top one, and amazingly the EM (green) design is trying to replicate that in shape of lines! It seams that someone was moved from Moscow mint to Ekaterinburg to assist with coin production and brought Moscow idea with them on how the wreath should look like. I am sure it was a short lived expression of Moscow influence, but there it is, right in your eyes... I wouldn't call it a new type, or anything like that, but it is certainly a curious variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted November 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Thank you Eugene, it took you quite a lot of work but I can see the distinctions, too, now. I wonder how it is possible to get aware of a tiny feature like this. For me the loop is more eyecatching and of course distinct differences of the eagles' design. You made an interesting discovery! It leads me to look closer. Unfortunately the majority of these coins are too worn or/and poorly struck to reveal minor features. I appreciate your research Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihaizaha Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 Dear all, I d like to show my two 5 kopeks 1758 coins. Condition not great but normal for the type. Sadly I can t upload fotos from my computer so I got these links: https://www.omnicoin.com/coin/1047926 https://www.omnicoin.com/coin/1047929 Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted December 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 Hi Mihaizaha, thank you for showing the coins. They are quite nice - above average. 1758 is not easily encountered. It was EM's 1st year of the big coppers and I still have to see a perfect strike. Happy hunting Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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